Shipyards building/repairing Kriegsmarine boats in Greece

[byron]

Theo danke,

da steht aber "Sardine" (der kleine Fisch) wovon ich nicht gehört habe, nicht "Sabine" 

[V]

i've found pictures of one of those ships. I do not know the name of the ship, but apparently it was towed to the small port of Rafina (not very far from Athens) around 1947-48, where it became part of the jetty there. The picture is from from the 70s. One more of those ships is supposed to be in the botom of the sea not very far from the shipyard of Perama. I have no idea of what happened to the others.

[V]

One more interesting picture. One of the bettonschiffe in Perama. The picture is not dated, but was probably taken shortly after the Germans left (and almost certailny in the 40s). Does anyone have an idea as to which class (type) it belongs?

[TD]

Dank für das schöne Foto.

Ich kenne nur einen Oberst Hermann bei den Pionieren, kann natürlich bis Ende 1944 noch General geworden sein, glaube aber vielmehr das die Pioniere noch GENERAL HERRMANN
an einen Neubau gepinselt haben  da es ja GENERAL JACOB I bis III gab und andere Schiffe mit den Namen GENERAL ....

Vielleicht schaut Byron ja einmal vorbei und sagt etwas dazu.

Ist ja so ruhig geworden das man schon nachfragen mußte ob es noch Lebenszeichen gibt.

Gruß

Theo

[kalli]

Byron gebe bitte ein Lebenszeichen von Dir 

[kgvm]

Kugler, Landungswesen, S. 77 etwa in der Mitte:
" ... so die späteren Generale .... Herrmann, Hopf ..."
Im Personenverzeichnis auf Seite 719 ist sein Rang dann mit Generalmajor angegeben, allerdings hier nur mit einem r, aber vermutlich dürfte der Schiffsname die korrekte Schreibweise wiedergeben.

[V]

One more thing...In Schenk's book (Kampf um die Agais) there is an interesting picture of a Bettonschiff being launched at Perama (you can a second one in the background). A certain Rewald is named as the source of this picture . Does anyone know if this guy, or anyone else served there during the war? I would be very intersted if I could find any pictures, memoires etc relevand with the launching, repairing and equiping German ships in Greece during the period. I'm especially looking for any information that has to do with the relations of Greek businesses and the German military (the Bettonschiffe were built by Greek companies for the Germans under the supervision of Oberstleutnant Goetsche).

[byron]

Freunde,

Theo und Kalli, Ich bedanke mich für Euer Interesse

Alles in Ordnung bei mir, war sehr beschäftigt in den letzten Monaten mit einem update meines Kr.Marine Buches (die neue Auflage wurde mit neuen Erkentnissen um 40 Seiten erweitert).

Ausserdem schreibe Ich ein neus Buch über die deutsche Luftwaffe in Griechenland, ebenfalls ein unerforschtes Gebiet, mit grossen Schwierigkeiten verbunden.

Es ist wirklich ein sehr interessantes Photo vom Freund "V" mit dem Betonschiff "General Herrmann". Ich nehme an, es wurde so zu Ehren des Kommandierenden Genarals der Pioniere in der Zeit bei der Heeresgruppe E, 10.11.41-13.07.44 Gen.Major Paul Herrmann benannt.
Soviel Ich weiss, war das Boot im Herbst 1944 fertiggestellt unter der Baultg. vom Obstlt. Götsche (Stahlbeton Schiffsbau, Werft in Perama, Fp.Nr 40 359)
Adj. bis 05.10.44    Hptm. Ernst Arnoldy  (bis 05.10.44  beim Schiffsbau Götsche). Arnoldy war zuständig für dem Kontakt mit den griechischen Firmen die mit Götsche zusammenarbeiteten.

[V]

This is the picture I was talking about from Schenk's book. If anyone knows of this Rewald (I hope I've got the spelling right) or anyone else please tell me....Is Schenk a member of this forum?
Byron: interesting information about Arnoldy. Do you have any more documents? (you don't have to post anything, just tell where to look...).
As I suggested before I'm interested in the economic side of things. In fact I started looking at the Greek economy as a whole, including the delivery of tobacco and chrome to Germany, the various factories that had some relation with the Germans and the Italians (especially in the textile and food industry), even the repair and maintenance of Luftwaffe planes in Greece (several buildings of Greek factories were used for this purpose for BMW, Daimler-Benz and Junkers and one was completely taken over by Siebel). At the end I came to the conclusion that the best example to have as the centre of my study is the Bettonschiffe affair, since in it an important part of the Greek heavy industry (the part that continued working anyway) was involved (metal, cement, shipbuilding, even building construction and civil engineering). I've found plenty of info so far, but my research is still ongoing and any help is welcome!

[byron]

@  V

the last picture "Pionier 1" you posted (Rehwald collection) is from Dr.Schenks book, but where is Betonschiff  "Gen. Herrmann" coming from?

Regarding the constructions of "Götsche", I remember he was involved in a bridge project over the Isthmus of Corinth. There are some pages and sketches about it in a wardiary of Heeresgruppe E or Befehlshaber Südgriechenland, I can`t remember any more the NARA roll Nr., I have more than twenty of them and no time to search, vorgive me.
I don`t have any more details about Arnoldy as far as i can remeber.

Dr. Peter Schenk is a member of our Forum, take a look in the rubric "Mitglieder".

[t-geronimo]

Did anyone ask Mr. Schenk for permission to publish his picture here in the forum??

[V]

No but I do not how to contact him, this is why I asked if he is a member of the forum.... Feel free to remove the picture if you think it shouldn't be here. Also if you have an email of Mr Schenk could you please share it with me?
As for Generel Herrmann's picture you also see it here: http://www.perama.gr/gallery.aspx
Byron: I had a look at the "Mitglieder" rubric, but the only Schenk I found was a Gerhard Schenk (at least this is what the email address he has published here is). The author of the book is Peter Schenk. Is it a different person?

[V]

Greetings.
I have one more question for you:
In his book, the prime minister of the Greek occupation government Logothetopoulos, mentions that in 1944 about 1.000.000 gold pounds were brought to Greece by the "German betonschiff company" in order to finance the building of those ships. Except from the problem of the "German bettonschiff company", as far as know there are no evidence of something like that. The only think I was able to find was an amount of 725.000 gold francs and a about 15.000 gold pounds given to the Reikosee to finance its projects in Greece (thus not just betonshiffe), plus about 100.000 gold francs given to the Mittelmeerwerften (which as far as I know had nothing to do with those ships).
The most likely scenario, I think, is that he confused the companies and the currencies.   
Does anyone know anything I don't? Has anyone come across any document mentioning those 1.000.000 gold pound?
Thanks

[Zerstörerfahrer]

Hallo,

leider kann ich dir bei deiner Frage nicht weiterhelfen.
Allerding wurde am 12.08.1944 die Götsche-Werft (Betonschiffbau) wegen Geldmangel stillgelegt. Ich denke, hätten die wirklich 1 Mill. Geldpfund bekommen, hätte die Lage ganz anders ausgesehen.

Grüße
René