Forum Marinearchiv

Hallo!

hier werden unsere Entwürfe für ein Großkampfschiff für den Ozeanischen Zufuhrskrieg morgen um 19:00 gepostet.

Die Vorgaben stelle ich noch rein.


mfg

alex

Morgen um 1900 bin ich unterwegs, darf ich schon posten? ^^

Mah mals Morgen, bevor du losziehsts.

Hauptsache, wir heben wenig Zeit, abzugucken  :D

(Bin selber schon fertig)

Für alle Mitleser, hier die Vorgaben nochmals:

Zitat:Verdrängung: 25.000 Tonnen Standart maximum

Panzerung: Gürtel min. 200 mm, Deck: 100mm min, "Bulkhead" 50mm min (auf 75% der Länge)

Reichweite: 15.000 sm bei 18 Knoten
Geschwindiglkeit: min. 31,5 Knoten

Bewaffnung: 6*280mm, 12*sFLAK, 40*lFLAK, 8*Torpedorohre

+600 Tonnen Miscalaneus für Flugzeuge, Schnellboote, Reservetorpedos, Hirngespinste, usw

Nur die Vorhandenen Geschützte können verwendet werden (neue Türme vorstellbar)

Mindestens 3 Schrauben, da die Regel max. 50.000PS pro Schraube gilt. Wer 4 Schrauben haben möchte, bitte gern!

Keine "light vessels". Das macht die Sache erst interessant. Comp. strength muß 1,00 sein.

Kiellegung: 1935 (um die ersten Schiffe bei Kriegsausbruch zur Verfügung zu haben)



Transom-Heck ist erlaubt, neue Türme zu den Vorhandenen GEschützten können eingeführt werden.


mfg

alex

Muuuh.

Was soll das mit der Flak genau bedeuten? Sind 12,8er, 3,7er doppel und 2cm Vierlinge erlaubt? (letztere sind fürs Gewicht eher unwichtig).
Und müssen es mindestens/maximal 12 schwere Flaks sein. oder dürfens auch so 8 *räusper* mehr sein? Und dürfen es auch mehr Flaks sein oder nicht? Ich meine jetzt nicht 1xx, aber eben ordentlich.

@Lutscha,

hau rein!

Für den nächsten Entwurf sollten wir sowieso andere Bedingungen setzen. Die hier gemachten sind zu eng. Da kommen fast identische Schiffe raus.

Wie wäre für den nächsten Entwurf folgendes:

Schlachtschiff/Schlachtkreuzer 1940

30.000t standard / Wasserlinien- und Zitadellpanzer (ist schwieriger zu realisieren, deshalb) / 750t Zusatzgewicht, Hauptkaliber 11", 12", 13,5" 14", 15" oder 16", 10.000sm bei 15kn.
Alles andere ist frei! Das ist wirklich interessant, da jeder andere Vorstellungen haben wird und dann wird man sehen, wer eher defensiv oder offensiv baut. Einstelldatum wird ausgemacht.

Der neue Flak, äh Schlachtkreuzer Goeben.
Hat einer mehr Deckspanzerung? ^^
Macht imo auch mehr Sinn, als ein allzu starker GP, da nicht auf point blank gekämpft wird und man vor zu starken flüchtet und dann eher Decktreffer kassiert.

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1939

Displacement:
   24.413 t light; 25.012 t standard; 29.954 t normal; 33.908 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,54 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft x 25,26 ft (normal load)
   223,28 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m  x 7,70 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.699 lbs / 3.039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   411,88 ft / 125,54 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   411,88 ft / 125,54 m   24,57 ft / 7,49 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 149.435 shp / 111.479 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.897 tons

Complement:
   1.137 - 1.479

Cost:
   £12,357 million / $49,429 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 9.166 tons, 30,6%
      - Belts: 1.988 tons, 6,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 737 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 859 tons, 2,9%
      - Armour Deck: 5.419 tons, 18,1%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 4.043 tons, 13,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.766 tons, 32,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.542 tons, 18,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52.406 lbs / 23.771 Kg = 78,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,27
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 14,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,701
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,89 ft / 8,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (23,62 ft / 7,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m (21,33 ft / 6,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,07 ft / 7,03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,4%
   Waterplane Area: 49.598 Square feet or 4.608 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ich glaube, ich habe bei der Maschinerie was falsch gemacht...
Muss ich nochmal schauen.

Edit: Hmmm, nö ist dich i.O..

@Lutscha,

nö, aber mein Schiff ist stabiler!!

"Yorck" , Deutschland Panzerschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.052 t light; 24.995 t standard; 29.988 t normal; 33.981 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   759,75 ft / 753,77 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 91,86 ft) x 27,07 ft (normal load)
   231,57 m / 229,75 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 28,00 m)  x 8,25 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     14 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (7x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4.947 lbs / 2.244 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   25,00 ft / 7,62 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   1,18" / 30 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 130.175 shp / 97.110 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.986 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £9,566 million / $38,264 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 618 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 8.950 tons, 29,8%
      - Belts: 2.765 tons, 9,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.098 tons, 3,7%
      - Armament: 644 tons, 2,1%
      - Armour Deck: 4.360 tons, 14,5%
      - Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 3.698 tons, 12,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.186 tons, 34,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.935 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     63.748 lbs / 28.916 Kg = 95,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 10,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33
   Metacentric height 7,1 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 31,61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188,7%
   Waterplane Area: 49.889 Square feet or 4.635 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 702 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

@Lutscha,

gegen dein Schiff trete ich gern an:

Shells per gun, main battery: 0  :)

Ja, und bei mir ist keine Munition für die SA an Bord, ka warum der die nicht an Bord gepackt hat... -_-
Toll, alles umsonst optimiert.

@Lutscha,

würde den Typen sofort vor's Kriegsgericht stellen!!!

So, war doch was falsch beim Antrieb, da 1939 eingestellt war, jetzt ist weniger Panzerung drauf und die Geschwindigkeit 0,5kn langsamer.

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.066 t light; 25.000 t standard; 30.150 t normal; 34.270 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,54 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft x 25,26 ft (normal load)
   223,28 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m  x 7,70 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.699 lbs / 3.039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   415,52 ft / 126,65 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 89% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   415,52 ft / 126,65 m   24,57 ft / 7,49 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 141.276 shp / 105.392 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9.270 tons

Complement:
   1.143 - 1.487

Cost:
   £10,730 million / $42,919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 8.771 tons, 29,1%
      - Belts: 1.926 tons, 6,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 744 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 859 tons, 2,8%
      - Armour Deck: 5.078 tons, 16,8%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 4.014 tons, 13,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.844 tons, 32,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.084 tons, 20,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52.769 lbs / 23.935 Kg = 78,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 14,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,89 ft / 8,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (23,62 ft / 7,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m (21,33 ft / 6,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,07 ft / 7,03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,2%
   Waterplane Area: 49.805 Square feet or 4.627 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 691 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

@Lutscha,

na, wird doch!
Was haltet ihr von meinem Vorschlag. Keine zu engen Vorgaben und jeder bastelt mal seinen "Liebling". Schwieriger wäre ein 17.500t-Projekt, daher eigentlich auch interessanter.

Na Hallo!

Ich hab gleich zwei Entwürfe, einmal 6*28, und 12 Torpedos, einmal 8*28, 8 Torpedos, dafür aber nur 10,5 sFLAK:

ZitatGneisenau, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23 636 t light; 24 726 t standard; 29 671 t normal; 33 627 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   724,33 ft / 711,94 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 95,96 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   220,78 m / 217,00 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 29,25 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5 823 lbs / 2 641 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     124,67 ft / 38,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,36" / 60 mm   590,55 ft / 180,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      4,13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 132 563 shp / 98 892 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 902 tons

Complement:
   1 129 - 1 469

Cost:
   £10,008 million / $40,033 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 728 tons, 2,5 %
   Armour: 8 515 tons, 28,7 %
      - Belts: 2 700 tons, 9,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 101 tons, 3,7 %
      - Armament: 868 tons, 2,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3 793 tons, 12,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 766 tons, 12,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 027 tons, 33,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 035 tons, 20,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50 740 lbs / 23 015 Kg = 75,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 8,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 15,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   27,89 ft / 8,50 m (20,67 ft / 6,30 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      20,01 ft / 6,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19,36 ft / 5,90 m
      - Stern:      18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,42 ft / 6,53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 47 347 Square feet or 4 399 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,15
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

ZitatScharnhorst, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   22 991 t light; 23 984 t standard; 28 847 t normal; 32 737 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   712,85 ft / 700,46 ft x 88,58 ft (Bulges 93,50 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   217,28 m / 213,50 m x 27,00 m (Bulges 28,50 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     12 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 4 809 lbs / 2 182 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     113,19 ft / 34,50 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,36" / 60 mm   597,11 ft / 182,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      4,13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,53" / 115 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 135 499 shp / 101 082 Kw = 31,75 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 753 tons

Complement:
   1 106 - 1 438

Cost:
   £9,411 million / $37,644 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 601 tons, 2,1 %
   Armour: 8 380 tons, 29,1 %
      - Belts: 2 781 tons, 9,6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 113 tons, 3,9 %
      - Armament: 574 tons, 2,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3 860 tons, 13,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 849 tons, 13,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 525 tons, 33,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5 856 tons, 20,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 635 tons, 2,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48 873 lbs / 22 168 Kg = 73,0 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 8,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 6,2 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,97

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,573
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   27,89 ft / 8,50 m (20,67 ft / 6,30 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      20,01 ft / 6,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19,36 ft / 5,90 m
      - Stern:      18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,42 ft / 6,53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 46 089 Square feet or 4 282 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,20
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Vier Drillings-Torpedosätzte, dafür +35 Tonnen Extragewicht in Kauf genommen.

Stabilität bewusst etwas heruntergenommen, um eine bessere Schiessplatform zu bekommen.

(Mein Favoriet wäre der Entwurf SH.

mfg

alex

PS: Die Vorgaben mussten so eng gefasst werden, um a, ein noch recht billiges Schiff zu basteln, dass sowohl SH, als auch die schweren Kreuzer ersetzten kann, b, eine Minimalbewaffnung vorzugeben, c, wirklich einen Schiff für den Zufuhrskrieg zu bekommen, und nicht einen für die Ostsee d, die tatsächlichen Möglichkeiten zu simulieren.

Soweit ich sehe, haben wir aus den Vorgaben recht unterschiedliche Schiffe zusammengesetzt.

So, jetzt weiss ich auch, warum Spees Schiff mehr aushält und wie man das einstellt, wobei ich das nicht nutzen werde, weil es gegen das AoN-Prinzip verstösst. Btw, Dein Schiff hält mehr penetrating hits aus, bei mir gibts die dafür weniger.
Was bei meinem Entwurf fehlt, sind bulges, damit wird er etwas besser.

@Lutscha,

ich wußte garnicht, daß du ein "Prinzipienreiter" bist?

@Huszar,

die Seefähigkeit ist ein entscheidendes Kriterium für einen Entwurf. Ansonsten wird's ein Monitor.

@Lutscha+Huszar,

nicht die meisten und dicksten Rohre und die "fetteste" Panzerung machen einen guten Entwurf aus.

Entwurf H: Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,98

Entwurf L: Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Entwurf S: Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Ihr könnt das ja machen wir ihr wollte, aber sobald die See etwas rauher wird, sind eure Schiffe als Geschützplattformen schlecht.
Mehr Freibord, Seitenwülste (bulges) und weniger Panzerung und Bewaffnung.

So, hier ist das Schiff nochmal mit Wulsten:

Spee, ich mach das mit AoN nur, weil ich es sinnvoll finde.
Das Problem bei mir ist, dass die Turmpanzerung und vor allem die Deckspanzerung die Seefähigkeit immer so stark reduzieren.
Hauptproblem bei mir ist vor allem die MA unterzukriegen...

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.049 t light; 25.001 t standard; 30.100 t normal; 34.179 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,10 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 89,73 ft) x 25,26 ft (normal load)
   223,14 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 27,35 m)  x 7,70 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.699 lbs / 3.039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   410,07 ft / 124,99 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 87% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   410,07 ft / 124,99 m   24,21 ft / 7,38 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 138.316 shp / 103.184 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9.178 tons

Complement:
   1.142 - 1.485

Cost:
   £10,667 million / $42,667 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 8.535 tons, 28,4%
      - Belts: 1.901 tons, 6,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 723 tons, 2,4%
      - Armament: 949 tons, 3,2%
      - Armour Deck: 4.797 tons, 15,9%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.929 tons, 13,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.147 tons, 33,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.051 tons, 20,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     53.801 lbs / 24.404 Kg = 80,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
   Metacentric height 6,1 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,644
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,73 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (50%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,18 ft / 7,07 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170,3%
   Waterplane Area: 47.044 Square feet or 4.371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 724 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,17
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

@Lutscha,

nimm mal den block coefficent runter und gib' dem Schiff dafür mehr Tiefgang. Sollte die Stabilität verbessern.

Stimmt und endlich sind auch 15cm Deckspanzerung drin...  :D

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.068 t light; 25.018 t standard; 30.000 t normal; 33.986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,98 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 89,73 ft) x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   223,41 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 27,35 m)  x 8,50 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.699 lbs / 3.039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   410,07 ft / 124,99 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 87% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   410,07 ft / 124,99 m   24,21 ft / 7,38 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,69" / 170 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 133.103 shp / 99.295 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.968 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £10,565 million / $42,258 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 8.560 tons, 28,5%
      - Belts: 1.897 tons, 6,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 723 tons, 2,4%
      - Armament: 933 tons, 3,1%
      - Armour Deck: 4.843 tons, 16,1%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.781 tons, 12,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.289 tons, 34,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.932 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     53.916 lbs / 24.456 Kg = 80,5 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,26
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   24,70 ft / 7,53 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,0%
   Waterplane Area: 44.328 Square feet or 4.118 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 741 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,40
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

@Lutscha,

sieht doch schon wesentlich besser aus!!
Spart dir auch satte 5.000PS bei deiner Maschinenanlage, was wieder Gewicht spart. Feiner Entwurf!

Jetzt gib mal die "Brooklyn" ein und dann wirst du sehen, warum ich von dem Entwurf nichts halte.

Ist ein wenig schwer sie hinzukriegen, da man ja nicht einfach die Panzerungswerte eingeben kann (verschiedene Dicken), ohne Transom Stern ist sie allerdings nicht gut.

@Lutscha,

der Entwurf kann nicht gut sein, da völlig überladen.
Die britische Admiralität hat vom damaligen DNC einen solchen Entwurf gefordert. Der DNC hat ihn abgelehnt, da das kein guter Entwurf werden kann. Deshalb hatten die "Town's" der Briten auch nur 12-15,2cm.

@Spee:

Danke für den Tipp!

Hier die beiden endgültigen Entwürfe:

ZitatGneisenau, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23 771 t light; 24 864 t standard; 29 829 t normal; 33 800 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   724,93 ft / 711,94 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 95,96 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   220,96 m / 217,00 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 29,25 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5 823 lbs / 2 641 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     124,67 ft / 38,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   590,55 ft / 180,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      4,13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 133 206 shp / 99 372 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 936 tons

Complement:
   1 134 - 1 475

Cost:
   £10,045 million / $40,181 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 728 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 8 379 tons, 28,1 %
      - Belts: 2 701 tons, 9,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 917 tons, 3,1 %
      - Armament: 904 tons, 3,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3 804 tons, 12,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 784 tons, 12,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 245 tons, 34,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 057 tons, 20,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 635 tons, 2,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52 725 lbs / 23 916 Kg = 78,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 8,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 15,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,568
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,17 ft / 9,50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   29,53 ft / 9,00 m (22,31 ft / 6,80 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20,67 ft / 6,30 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   22,92 ft / 6,99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 47 484 Square feet or 4 411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 740 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,24
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

12 Torpedorohre in Drillingssätzen, dafür 35 Tonnen Extragewicht

ZitatScharnhorst, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23 726 t light; 24 736 t standard; 29 703 t normal; 33 676 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   713,44 ft / 700,46 ft x 88,58 ft (Bulges 93,50 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   217,46 m / 213,50 m x 27,00 m (Bulges 28,50 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     12 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 4 809 lbs / 2 182 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     113,19 ft / 34,50 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,36" / 60 mm   597,11 ft / 182,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      4,13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,92" / 125 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 134 947 shp / 100 671 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 941 tons

Complement:
   1 130 - 1 470

Cost:
   £9,531 million / $38,123 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 601 tons, 2,0 %
   Armour: 8 813 tons, 29,7 %
      - Belts: 2 783 tons, 9,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 113 tons, 3,7 %
      - Armament: 599 tons, 2,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 4 265 tons, 14,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 834 tons, 12,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 843 tons, 33,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5 977 tons, 20,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 635 tons, 2,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55 470 lbs / 25 161 Kg = 82,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 9,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
   Metacentric height 6,9 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 15,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,590
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,17 ft / 9,50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   29,53 ft / 9,00 m (22,31 ft / 6,80 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Stern:      20,51 ft / 6,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,06 ft / 7,03 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 46 847 Square feet or 4 352 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 718 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,29
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Vier Drillings-Torpedosätzte, dafür +35 Tonnen Extragewicht in Kauf genommen.

Fazit meinerseits: mit 25.000 Tonnen Standart sind die Schiffe machbar, obwohl mit Kompromissen.

Bin mal auf deinen Entwurf gespannt, Spee!

mfg

alex

PS: habs mit den Mischanlagen ausgerechnet (getrennt für Diesel und Turbinen), es geht vom Gewicht her kaum.

Spees Entwurf ist doch schon da. (vorherige Seite)
Die Schraubenanzahl erhöht das Gewicht ja gar nicht... Dann würde ich wohl 4 nehmen.

So, nochmal geupdated auf 4 Schrauben und den 330kg Granaten.


Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.050 t light; 25.002 t standard; 29.982 t normal; 33.966 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,98 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 89,73 ft) x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   223,41 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 27,35 m)  x 8,50 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 727,53lbs / 330,00kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7.161 lbs / 3.248 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   401,77 ft / 122,46 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 86% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   401,77 ft / 122,46 m   24,21 ft / 7,38 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,69" / 170 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 133.032 shp / 99.242 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.964 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £10,560 million / $42,240 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 8.502 tons, 28,4%
      - Belts: 1.866 tons, 6,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 709 tons, 2,4%
      - Armament: 923 tons, 3,1%
      - Armour Deck: 4.841 tons, 16,1%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.779 tons, 12,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.331 tons, 34,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.932 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     53.354 lbs / 24.201 Kg = 79,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,26
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,92 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,25 ft / 8,00 m (24,93 ft / 7,60 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   24,51 ft / 7,47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169,9%
   Waterplane Area: 44.313 Square feet or 4.117 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 746 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,40
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Werd mal alle vier Entwürfe morgen bei der Arbeit aussdrucken, und auswerten.

Dann wird abgestimmt, und der Siegerentwurf Adm. Reader vorgelegt :D

mfg

alex

@Lutscha,

3 oder 4, wie's beliebt.

@Huszar,

ok, du hast einen Zitadellpanzer mit drin, gibt deinem Schiff doch gewisse Vorteile.
Aber:

1. Mach' den Rumpf schlanker und länger ("Länge läuft!"). Das spart Antriebsleistung. Natural speed sollte der gewünschten Endgeschwindigkeit so nah wie möglich kommen.
2. Die Munitionsdotierung kann auf 100 Schuß pro Rohr runter. Das ist ausreichend.
3. Die zusätzliche Torpedobewaffnung muß du nicht mit 35t aufwiegen, das macht das Programm.
4. Packe nicht soviel leichte Flak drauf. Das ist ein "Raider" und keine Flakfalle.
5. Arbeite den Entwurf mal ohne "upper armour" durch. Lutscha und ich haben den auch weggelassen.

Mein Entwurf lässt sich vollkommen problemlos auf 4 35,6er mit 65okg Granaten oder 6 30,5er mit 435kg Granaten umrüsten. (auch wenn das nicht erlaubt war, die 30,5er wäre eine gute Option)

Tja spee, leider wird sich die DKM gegen unsere beiden Entwürfe entscheiden, weil zu sinnvoll und ohne Zitadellpanzer... -_-

@Lutscha,

naja, die DKM hatte da schon einige Probleme mit bedacht. Der Zitadellpanzer macht Sinn, wenn man mit Angriffen von Zerstörern und leichten Kreuzern rechnen muß. Das war nötig, da man davon ausgehen mußte, nie über ausreichend Sicherungsfahrzeuge zu verfügen, damit dies nicht geschehen kann. Ist schon nicht einfach gewesen für die Planer der DKM.

Wir können ja mal folgendes versuchen, damit die Probleme deutlich werden.

20.000t Schiff mit 6x28cm (Drilling), 8x15cm, 12x10,5cm, 12x3,7cm und 12x2cm (alles Zwillinge) und 8Tr 53,3cm (Vierling), Geschwindigkeit 31kn, Zitadellpanzer inklusive. Das dürfte ein etwas schwierigeres Projekt sein.

@Lutscha,

mit ein paar Modifikationen (30kn schnell, etwas dünnerer Seitenpanzer) geht sogar noch mehr!!

Lützow, Deutschland Panzerschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.021 t light; 25.029 t standard; 30.024 t normal; 34.020 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   759,75 ft / 753,77 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 91,86 ft) x 27,10 ft (normal load)
   231,57 m / 229,75 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 28,00 m)  x 8,26 m

Armament:
     4 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.687,50lbs / 765,44kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7.204 lbs / 3.268 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   25,00 ft / 7,62 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 4,72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 108.137 shp / 80.670 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.992 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.482

Cost:
   £10,321 million / $41,283 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 901 tons, 3,0%
   Armour: 8.469 tons, 28,2%
      - Belts: 2.212 tons, 7,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.098 tons, 3,7%
      - Armament: 700 tons, 2,3%
      - Armour Deck: 4.360 tons, 14,5%
      - Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 3.072 tons, 10,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.980 tons, 36,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.003 tons, 20,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     62.839 lbs / 28.503 Kg = 37,2 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 10,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 14,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 31,61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188,7%
   Waterplane Area: 49.889 Square feet or 4.635 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 757 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,29
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Mit ohne Zitadellpanzer hat man zwei Möglichkeiten:

a, Alles über dem Panzerdeck opfern

b, Gürtelpanzer bis oben hohziehen, und das Wetterdeck als Panzerdeck nehmen.

Hab auch mit der Idee gespielt, habs aber dann sein lassen.

Ich plane viel Flak erstens für die Zukunft (nach 1942), zweitens um die nicht gerade berauschende sFLAK auszugleichen. Ginge auf mit ca. der Hälfte der Kanonen...

150 Schuss pro SA lass ich ebenfalls drinn, um so wenig, wie möglich auf See damit versorgt werden zu müssen.

Die 35 Tonnen für die zusätzlichen Rohre beinhalten Reservetorpedos, Raum, Rechenanlage.

Ach ja, hab die Entwürfe auf die tatsächlichen Granatgewichte überprüft. Macht einen kleinen Unterschied.


mfg

alex

Spee, das bringt mit 4 Geschützen aber nicht so viel, zumal der Panzer für richtige Schlachtschiffe zu dünn ist. (ausser mein deck armour ^^)

Hier mal auf die Schnelle ein Panzerschiff mit 20k un 31kn

Fehlkonstruktion, Deutschland, Panzerschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   19.298 t light; 20.083 t standard; 24.500 t normal; 28.034 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 78,74 ft (Bulges 83,66 ft) x 25,59 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 24,00 m (Bulges 25,50 m)  x 7,80 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 727,53lbs / 330,00kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on side, all amidships
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships
     12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5.634 lbs / 2.556 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   407,22 ft / 124,12 m   10,66 ft / 3,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   2,76" / 70 mm   407,58 ft / 124,23 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 87% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   407,22 ft / 124,12 m   22,47 ft / 6,85 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm   1,18" / 30 mm            -
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 109.083 shp / 81.376 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7.951 tons

Complement:
   978 - 1.272

Cost:
   £8,474 million / $33,896 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 661 tons, 2,7%
   Armour: 6.328 tons, 25,8%
      - Belts: 1.713 tons, 7,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 667 tons, 2,7%
      - Armament: 819 tons, 3,3%
      - Armour Deck: 3.022 tons, 12,3%
      - Conning Tower: 107 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 3.099 tons, 12,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.611 tons, 35,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.202 tons, 21,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42.962 lbs / 19.487 Kg = 64,1 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 6,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 5,5 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 15,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,555
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      21,33 ft / 6,50 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,29 ft / 6,49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153,3%
   Waterplane Area: 41.488 Square feet or 3.854 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,14
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Hier nochmal mein Entwurf mit 38ern. Leider mussten 2,5cm Deckpanzerung wech.

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23.992 t light; 25.002 t standard; 29.982 t normal; 33.966 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,98 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 89,73 ft) x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   223,41 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 27,35 m)  x 8,50 m

Armament:
     4 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.763,70lbs / 800,00kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8.396 lbs / 3.808 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,65" / 245 mm   426,64 ft / 130,04 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 91% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   426,64 ft / 130,04 m   24,21 ft / 7,38 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,69" / 170 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,92" / 125 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 133.032 shp / 99.242 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.964 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £11,265 million / $45,061 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.005 tons, 3,4%
   Armour: 7.864 tons, 26,2%
      - Belts: 1.920 tons, 6,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 752 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 993 tons, 3,3%
      - Armour Deck: 4.034 tons, 13,5%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.779 tons, 12,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.743 tons, 35,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.990 tons, 20,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     49.938 lbs / 22.652 Kg = 29,8 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 7,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 5,6 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,92 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,25 ft / 8,00 m (24,93 ft / 7,60 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   24,51 ft / 7,47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169,9%
   Waterplane Area: 44.313 Square feet or 4.117 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 775 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,43
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

@Huszar,

nicht soviele Details am Anfang. Nehmt das, was das Programm vorgibt.
Wenn das Programm 12 Torpedorohre akzeptiert, dann ist das ok.

Entwickelt erst einmal ein gutes, seefähiges Schiff. Vollstopfen kann man Schiffe mit allen möglichen Dingen, nur was nützt das, wenn ab Seegang 3 der Waffeneinsatz nicht mehr möglich ist?

Hier mal der 17500 Tonnen Kreuzer und nun mach ich nen 45k (1937)Schlachtschiff.

Admiral Klopper, Deutschland Schwerer Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   16.896 t light; 17.500 t standard; 20.160 t normal; 22.288 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 72,18 ft (Bulges 77,10 ft) x 25,59 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 22,00 m (Bulges 23,50 m)  x 7,80 m

Armament:
     9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,78kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     24 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3.366 lbs / 1.527 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   442,82 ft / 134,97 m   10,20 ft / 3,11 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 94% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   442,82 ft / 134,97 m   23,33 ft / 7,11 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      5,91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 105.995 shp / 79.073 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.789 tons

Complement:
   845 - 1.099

Cost:
   £6,956 million / $27,824 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 421 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 5.563 tons, 27,6%
      - Belts: 1.344 tons, 6,7%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 752 tons, 3,7%
      - Armament: 754 tons, 3,7%
      - Armour Deck: 2.618 tons, 13,0%
      - Conning Tower: 94 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.011 tons, 14,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.301 tons, 36,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.264 tons, 16,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 3,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33.939 lbs / 15.395 Kg = 133,0 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 5,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
   Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 15,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m (21,33 ft / 6,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,97 ft / 6,70 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,9%
   Waterplane Area: 35.945 Square feet or 3.339 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,18
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

@Huszar + Lutscha,

so, jetzt blasse ich euch aus dem Wasser  :D  :D  !!!!!

"Wütend" , Deutschland Leichter Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.072 t light; 25.029 t standard; 30.024 t normal; 34.020 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   759,75 ft / 753,77 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 91,86 ft) x 27,10 ft (normal load)
   231,57 m / 229,75 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 28,00 m)  x 8,26 m

Armament:
     2 - 17,99" / 457 mm guns in single mounts, 2.912,18lbs / 1.320,94kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.279 lbs / 2.848 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,38" / 35 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   25,03 ft / 7,63 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,31" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 4,72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 122.511 shp / 91.393 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.992 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.482

Cost:
   £10,126 million / $40,505 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 785 tons, 2,6%
   Armour: 8.610 tons, 28,7%
      - Belts: 2.323 tons, 7,7%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 770 tons, 2,6%
      - Armament: 514 tons, 1,7%
      - Armour Deck: 4.905 tons, 16,3%
      - Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 3.480 tons, 11,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.597 tons, 35,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.952 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     61.691 lbs / 27.983 Kg = 21,2 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 9,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 14,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 31,61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188,7%
   Waterplane Area: 49.889 Square feet or 4.635 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 730 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,26
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Bismarck, Deutschland Schlachtschiff laid down 1937

Displacement:
   43.058 t light; 45.024 t standard; 49.500 t normal; 53.081 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   831,84 ft / 820,21 ft x 111,55 ft (Bulges 121,39 ft) x 32,81 ft (normal load)
   253,55 m / 250,00 m x 34,00 m (Bulges 37,00 m)  x 10,00 m

Armament:
     8 - 16,14" / 410 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.535,32lbs / 1.150,00kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1937 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     40 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     80 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (20x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 21.644 lbs / 9.817 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   425,56 ft / 129,71 m   12,66 ft / 3,86 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 80% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,76" / 70 mm   425,56 ft / 129,71 m   29,17 ft / 8,89 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17,7" / 450 mm   11,8" / 300 mm      16,9" / 430 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 15,75" / 400 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160.754 shp / 119.923 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.057 tons

Complement:
   1.659 - 2.157

Cost:
   £22,037 million / $88,149 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.273 tons, 4,6%
   Armour: 15.044 tons, 30,4%
      - Belts: 3.058 tons, 6,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.266 tons, 2,6%
      - Armament: 3.135 tons, 6,3%
      - Armour Deck: 7.127 tons, 14,4%
      - Conning Tower: 457 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 4.455 tons, 9,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 20.685 tons, 41,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.442 tons, 13,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     82.439 lbs / 37.394 Kg = 39,2 x 16,1 " / 410 mm shells or 13,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 8,6 ft / 2,6 m
   Roll period: 17,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 33,66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,17 ft / 9,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   31,17 ft / 9,50 m
      - Mid (50%):      27,89 ft / 8,50 m (26,25 ft / 8,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   26,08 ft / 7,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 194,7%
   Waterplane Area: 65.238 Square feet or 6.061 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 224 lbs/sq ft or 1.095 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,56
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Meine lieblings Super-As, jetzt auf die exackten Mun Gewichten getrimmt, etwas weniger Flak, die 35 Extratonnen sind abgezogen
Und genug isses.

ZitatScharnhorst, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23 883 t light; 24 917 t standard; 29 895 t normal; 33 877 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,65 ft / 708,66 ft x 88,58 ft (Bulges 95,14 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   219,96 m / 216,00 m x 27,00 m (Bulges 29,00 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 700,00lbs / 317,51kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     12 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 61,75lbs / 28,01kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 4,63lbs / 2,10kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     22 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (11x2 guns), 0,32lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,32lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5 025 lbs / 2 279 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   459,32 ft / 140,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     118,11 ft / 36,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,36" / 60 mm   597,11 ft / 182,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      4,33" / 110 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,92" / 125 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 134 150 shp / 100 076 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 960 tons

Complement:
   1 136 - 1 477

Cost:
   £9,538 million / $38,152 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 600 tons, 2,0 %
   Armour: 8 852 tons, 29,6 %
      - Belts: 2 797 tons, 9,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 113 tons, 3,7 %
      - Armament: 620 tons, 2,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 4 261 tons, 14,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 811 tons, 12,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 020 tons, 33,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 012 tons, 20,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     56 369 lbs / 25 569 Kg = 84,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 9,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,34
   Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 15,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,577
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,17 ft / 9,50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   29,53 ft / 9,00 m (22,31 ft / 6,80 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Stern:      20,51 ft / 6,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,06 ft / 7,03 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 46 801 Square feet or 4 348 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 727 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,28
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

ZitatGneisenau, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23 819 t light; 24 970 t standard; 29 955 t normal; 33 943 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,65 ft / 708,66 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 95,14 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   219,96 m / 216,00 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 29,00 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 700,00lbs / 317,51kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 59,00lbs / 26,76kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 4,63lbs / 2,10kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     22 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (11x2 guns), 0,32lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,32lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 6 392 lbs / 2 899 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     121,39 ft / 37,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   590,55 ft / 180,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 134 391 shp / 100 255 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 973 tons

Complement:
   1 138 - 1 480

Cost:
   £10,073 million / $40,293 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 727 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 8 361 tons, 27,9 %
      - Belts: 2 702 tons, 9,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 917 tons, 3,1 %
      - Armament: 865 tons, 2,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3 823 tons, 12,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 818 tons, 12,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 313 tons, 34,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 136 tons, 20,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52 751 lbs / 23 928 Kg = 78,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 8,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,578
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,17 ft / 9,50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   29,53 ft / 9,00 m (22,31 ft / 6,80 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20,67 ft / 6,30 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   22,92 ft / 6,99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 47 720 Square feet or 4 433 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 744 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,26
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Würde immernoch auf das Projekt mit 6*280 + 127mm voten.

Wie gesagt, morgen werde ich die vier Entwürfe mal ein wenig in "Ruhe" vergleichen.

mfg

alex

Ich hab die 330kg Granaten genommen, weil das die Granaten von den Geschützen der Scharnhorst waren, sie zur Verfügung standen und stärker sind.

@Lutscha,

Gegenentwurf!

Friedrich der Große, Deutschland Schlachtschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   42.793 t light; 44.823 t standard; 49.422 t normal; 53.100 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   842,76 ft / 836,78 ft x 108,27 ft (Bulges 109,91 ft) x 31,82 ft (normal load)
   256,87 m / 255,05 m x 33,00 m (Bulges 33,50 m)  x 9,70 m

Armament:
     6 - 17,99" / 457 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2.912,18lbs / 1.320,94kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18.529 lbs / 8.405 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   12,50 ft / 3,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   29,89 ft / 9,11 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 7,87" / 200 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 163.792 shp / 122.189 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.277 tons

Complement:
   1.656 - 2.154

Cost:
   £20,846 million / $83,384 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.316 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 17.147 tons, 34,7%
      - Belts: 4.073 tons, 8,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.457 tons, 2,9%
      - Armament: 1.301 tons, 2,6%
      - Armour Deck: 9.973 tons, 20,2%
      - Conning Tower: 343 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 4.653 tons, 9,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18.077 tons, 36,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.629 tons, 13,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     78.326 lbs / 35.528 Kg = 26,9 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 12,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
   Metacentric height 7,6 ft / 2,3 m
   Roll period: 16,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 33,40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182,0%
   Waterplane Area: 68.466 Square feet or 6.361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 954 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,21
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Spee, deine Türme sind aus Pappe, mach lieber 2-3cm Deck weg.

@Lutscha,

die sollen kämpfen und sich nicht verstecken!!!!  :D   :D
War nur so mal schnell eingetippt  :oops:  .

Besser?

Friedrich der Große, Deutschland Schlachtschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   42.793 t light; 44.823 t standard; 49.422 t normal; 53.100 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   842,76 ft / 836,78 ft x 108,27 ft (Bulges 109,91 ft) x 31,82 ft (normal load)
   256,87 m / 255,05 m x 33,00 m (Bulges 33,50 m)  x 9,70 m

Armament:
     6 - 17,99" / 457 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2.912,18lbs / 1.320,94kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18.529 lbs / 8.405 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   12,50 ft / 3,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   29,89 ft / 9,11 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      7,48" / 190 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 7,09" / 180 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 163.792 shp / 122.189 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.277 tons

Complement:
   1.656 - 2.154

Cost:
   £20,846 million / $83,384 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.316 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 16.995 tons, 34,4%
      - Belts: 4.073 tons, 8,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.457 tons, 2,9%
      - Armament: 2.147 tons, 4,3%
      - Armour Deck: 8.976 tons, 18,2%
      - Conning Tower: 343 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 4.653 tons, 9,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18.228 tons, 36,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.629 tons, 13,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     77.200 lbs / 35.017 Kg = 26,5 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 12,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 7,3 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 17,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 33,40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182,0%
   Waterplane Area: 68.466 Square feet or 6.361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 197 lbs/sq ft or 962 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Barbetten sollten imo 4xx dick sein, ebenso die Faceplates bei dem Kaliber. Gunhouse sollte 250-300 sein (so kann man Turmdecken mit 20+cm annehmen)

Ich bau mal die Yamato nach. (bzw eine bessere)

@Lutscha,

schon erledigt!

Friedrich der Große, Deutschland Schlachtschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   42.793 t light; 44.823 t standard; 49.422 t normal; 53.100 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   842,76 ft / 836,78 ft x 108,27 ft (Bulges 109,91 ft) x 31,82 ft (normal load)
   256,87 m / 255,05 m x 33,00 m (Bulges 33,50 m)  x 9,70 m

Armament:
     6 - 17,99" / 457 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2.912,18lbs / 1.320,94kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18.529 lbs / 8.405 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   12,50 ft / 3,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,18" / 30 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   29,89 ft / 9,11 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      10,6" / 270 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 7,48" / 190 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 144.651 shp / 107.909 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.277 tons

Complement:
   1.656 - 2.154

Cost:
   £20,459 million / $81,834 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.316 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 17.434 tons, 35,3%
      - Belts: 4.073 tons, 8,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 874 tons, 1,8%
      - Armament: 2.670 tons, 5,4%
      - Armour Deck: 9.475 tons, 19,2%
      - Conning Tower: 343 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 4.109 tons, 8,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18.333 tons, 37,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.629 tons, 13,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     80.502 lbs / 36.515 Kg = 27,6 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 11,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 33,40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182,0%
   Waterplane Area: 68.466 Square feet or 6.361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 967 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Nach meinem Geschmack panzerst Du zu viel Fläche mit dem GP.

@Lutscha,

sicher ist sicher!

Die neue Yamato mit überschweren 46er Granaten... ^^

Yamato, Japan Superbattleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
   63.355 t light; 66.380 t standard; 70.000 t normal; 72.896 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   885,65 ft / 869,42 ft x 127,95 ft (Bulges 141,08 ft) x 36,09 ft (normal load)
   269,95 m / 265,00 m x 39,00 m (Bulges 43,00 m)  x 11,00 m

Armament:
     8 - 18,11" / 460 mm guns (2x4 guns), 3.858,09lbs / 1.750,00kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     40 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (20x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1937 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
     120 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (40x3 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1937 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 32.142 lbs / 14.580 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   422,47 ft / 128,77 m   13,06 ft / 3,98 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 75% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3,15" / 80 mm   422,47 ft / 128,77 m   31,79 ft / 9,69 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   25,6" / 650 mm   11,8" / 300 mm      19,7" / 500 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 9,84" / 250 mm, Conning tower: 19,69" / 500 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 198.313 shp / 147.942 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.515 tons

Complement:
   2.151 - 2.797

Cost:
   £30,632 million / $122,527 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3.130 tons, 4,5%
   Armour: 25.178 tons, 36,0%
      - Belts: 3.526 tons, 5,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.565 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 4.599 tons, 6,6%
      - Armour Deck: 14.767 tons, 21,1%
      - Conning Tower: 720 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 5.496 tons, 7,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 28.951 tons, 41,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.645 tons, 9,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 0,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     121.845 lbs / 55.268 Kg = 41,0 x 18,1 " / 460 mm shells or 22,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 9,7 ft / 3,0 m
   Roll period: 19,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 34,85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      36,09 ft / 11,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m (26,25 ft / 8,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   28,89 ft / 8,81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 211,1%
   Waterplane Area: 81.098 Square feet or 7.534 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 257 lbs/sq ft or 1.254 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,69
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Kuschlig!

Ok, habe mal die WL-Panzerung verkürzt.


Friedrich der Große, Deutschland Schlachtschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   42.872 t light; 44.905 t standard; 49.509 t normal; 53.192 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   844,23 ft / 838,25 ft x 108,27 ft (Bulges 109,91 ft) x 31,82 ft (normal load)
   257,32 m / 255,50 m x 33,00 m (Bulges 33,50 m)  x 9,70 m

Armament:
     6 - 17,99" / 457 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2.912,18lbs / 1.320,94kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18.529 lbs / 8.405 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,2" / 310 mm   544,62 ft / 166,00 m   12,50 ft / 3,81 m
   Ends:   1,18" / 30 mm   291,99 ft / 89,00 m   12,50 ft / 3,81 m
     1,64 ft / 0,50 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,18" / 30 mm   669,42 ft / 204,04 m   29,89 ft / 9,11 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 7,68" / 195 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 144.740 shp / 107.976 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.288 tons

Complement:
   1.659 - 2.157

Cost:
   £20,475 million / $81,898 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.316 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 17.406 tons, 35,2%
      - Belts: 3.720 tons, 7,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 874 tons, 1,8%
      - Armament: 2.728 tons, 5,5%
      - Armour Deck: 9.741 tons, 19,7%
      - Conning Tower: 343 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 4.112 tons, 8,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18.438 tons, 37,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.637 tons, 13,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     80.850 lbs / 36.673 Kg = 27,8 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 11,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 33,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182,0%
   Waterplane Area: 68.587 Square feet or 6.372 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 199 lbs/sq ft or 971 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,18
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Flakupdate (76,2er von der Oyodo) Wenn sie sich damit nicht halbwegs wehren kann, weiss ich auch nicht weiter.

Yamato, Japan Superbattleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
   63.503 t light; 66.380 t standard; 70.000 t normal; 72.896 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   885,65 ft / 869,42 ft x 127,95 ft (Bulges 141,08 ft) x 36,09 ft (normal load)
   269,95 m / 265,00 m x 39,00 m (Bulges 43,00 m)  x 11,00 m

Armament:
     8 - 18,11" / 460 mm guns (2x4 guns), 3.858,09lbs / 1.750,00kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     40 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (20x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1937 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
     40 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns (20x2 guns), 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1937 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     120 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (40x3 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1937 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 32.682 lbs / 14.824 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   411,55 ft / 125,44 m   13,06 ft / 3,98 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 73% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3,15" / 80 mm   411,55 ft / 125,44 m   31,79 ft / 9,69 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   25,6" / 650 mm   11,8" / 300 mm      19,7" / 500 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 9,84" / 250 mm, Conning tower: 19,69" / 500 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 198.313 shp / 147.942 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.515 tons

Complement:
   2.151 - 2.797

Cost:
   £30,969 million / $123,877 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3.197 tons, 4,6%
   Armour: 25.128 tons, 35,9%
      - Belts: 3.458 tons, 4,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.525 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 4.658 tons, 6,7%
      - Armour Deck: 14.767 tons, 21,1%
      - Conning Tower: 720 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 5.496 tons, 7,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 29.082 tons, 41,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.497 tons, 9,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 0,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     121.325 lbs / 55.032 Kg = 40,9 x 18,1 " / 460 mm shells or 21,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 9,8 ft / 3,0 m
   Roll period: 19,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 34,85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      36,09 ft / 11,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m (26,25 ft / 8,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   28,89 ft / 8,81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 211,1%
   Waterplane Area: 81.098 Square feet or 7.534 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 258 lbs/sq ft or 1.259 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,69
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Zur Unterstützung designe ich mal den AA-Cruiser ausm fleet replenishment Programm.

@Lutscha,

nett!

Aber je größer das Schiff, umso einfacher die Konstruktion bei Springsharp. Bau mal mit 2.000t einen brauchbaren Zerstörer, oder mit 1.000t ein Hochsee-Torpedoboot.

12 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1939 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns (8x2 guns), 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1939 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     24 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1939 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 960 lbs / 435 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,36" / 60 mm   466,08 ft / 142,06 m   9,22 ft / 2,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 118% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      0,79" / 20 mm   466,08 ft / 142,06 m   11,98 ft / 3,65 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,59" / 15 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 66.630 shp / 49.706 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.017 tons

Complement:
   489 - 637

Cost:
   £3,621 million / $14,482 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 120 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 1.489 tons, 15,3%
      - Belts: 407 tons, 4,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 163 tons, 1,7%
      - Armament: 74 tons, 0,8%
      - Armour Deck: 827 tons, 8,5%
      - Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 1.803 tons, 18,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.678 tons, 37,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.061 tons, 21,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 6,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.731 lbs / 6.682 Kg = 482,8 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 14,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,335
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29,04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   21,33 ft / 6,50 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,36 ft / 5,29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,6%
   Waterplane Area: 22.695 Square feet or 2.108 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 482 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,52
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

@Lutscha,

12 oder 24 100mm? Beengte Maschinenanlage und keine Munition an Bord.

Hab ich schon geändert, das mit der Maschinerie muss so bleiben, sonst wird das Schiff zu gross.

Hab die main battery gesplitted wegen der Anordnung, daher steht da 2mal 12 also insgesamt 24.

Flak Barrage, Japan Flakkreuzer laid down 1939

Displacement:
   7.694 t light; 8.078 t standard; 9.755 t normal; 11.096 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   615,47 ft / 606,96 ft x 59,06 ft (Bulges 65,62 ft) x 25,59 ft (normal load)
   187,59 m / 185,00 m x 18,00 m (Bulges 20,00 m)  x 7,80 m

Armament:
     12 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1939 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1939 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns (8x2 guns), 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1939 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     24 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1939 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 960 lbs / 435 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,36" / 60 mm   466,08 ft / 142,06 m   9,22 ft / 2,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 118% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      0,79" / 20 mm   466,08 ft / 142,06 m   11,98 ft / 3,65 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,59" / 15 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 66.655 shp / 49.725 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.018 tons

Complement:
   490 - 638

Cost:
   £3,622 million / $14,488 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 120 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 1.489 tons, 15,3%
      - Belts: 407 tons, 4,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 163 tons, 1,7%
      - Armament: 74 tons, 0,8%
      - Armour Deck: 826 tons, 8,5%
      - Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 1.803 tons, 18,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.682 tons, 37,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.061 tons, 21,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 6,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.752 lbs / 6.691 Kg = 483,5 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 14,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,335
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29,04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   21,33 ft / 6,50 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,36 ft / 5,29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,3%
   Waterplane Area: 22.693 Square feet or 2.108 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 482 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,53
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Ein Hohseet-Boot mit ca. 1000 Tonnen Standart war gefordert?

ZitatT-1, Germany Torpedoboat 2nd Class laid down 1933

Displacement:
   899 t light; 921 t standard; 975 t normal; 1 018 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   327,71 ft / 316,60 ft x 20,51 ft x 11,48 ft (normal load)
   99,89 m / 96,50 m x 6,25 m  x 3,50 m

Armament:
     2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 34,80lbs / 15,79kg shells, 1933 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,74lbs / 0,34kg shells, 1933 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,33lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1933 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 78 lbs / 35 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 50
   6 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,38" / 35 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 35 193 shp / 26 254 Kw = 36,00 kts
   Range 2 500nm at 12,50 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons

Complement:
   86 - 113

Cost:
   £0,546 million / $2,182 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 1,1 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0,7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 536 tons, 55,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 305 tons, 31,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 76 tons, 7,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     183 lbs / 83 Kg = 5,2 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
   Metacentric height 0,5 ft / 0,1 m
   Roll period: 12,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,90
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,458
   Length to Beam Ratio: 15,44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   15,58 ft / 4,75 m (13,94 ft / 4,25 m aft of break)
      - Mid (45 %):      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
      - Stern:      10,66 ft / 3,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,30 ft / 4,05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 45,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 330 Square feet or 402 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 45 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 112 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,41
      - Longitudinal: 3,37
      - Overall: 0,50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

Hmm, nach Spring Sharp müsste die BS sofort sinken. Wenn man die ganzen Punkte durch Kommas ersetzt, erhaält man auch vernünftige Werte, aber dabei kommt ein composite rating von 0,18 raus.

Bismarck, Deutschland Battleship laid down 1936
DESIGN FAILURE: Overall load weight too much for hull

Displacement:
   30.521 t light; 42.084 t standard; 46.674 t normal; 50.346 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   820,21 ft / 792,49 ft x 118,11 ft x 30,51 ft (normal load)
   250,00 m / 241,55 m x 36,00 m  x 9,30 m

Armament:
     8 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.763,00lbs / 799,68kg shells, 1934 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
     12 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (6x2 guns), 10.298,00lbs / 4.671,09kg shells, 1928 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1933 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 2,20lbs / 1,00kg shells, 1930 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (10 mounts), 2,20lbs / 1,00kg shells, 1930 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 14 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 138.316 lbs / 62.739 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   562,34 ft / 171,40 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   2,76" / 70 mm   229,33 ft / 69,90 m   9,51 ft / 2,90 m
     0,82 ft / 0,25 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5,71" / 145 mm   562,34 ft / 171,40 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
     Main Belt covers 109% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,77" / 45 mm   562,34 ft / 171,40 m   30,05 ft / 9,16 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,2" / 360 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      13,4" / 340 mm
   2nd:   3,94" / 100 mm   1,30" / 33 mm      3,15" / 80 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm   0,39" / 10 mm      0,79" / 20 mm

  - Armour deck: 5,02" / 128 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 137.994 shp / 102.944 Kw = 28,67 kts
   Range 8.525nm at 19,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.261 tons

Complement:
   1.587 - 2.064

Cost:
   £16,919 million / $67,676 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.903 tons, 4,1%
   Armour: 17.160 tons, 36,8%
      - Belts: 6.165 tons, 13,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.108 tons, 2,4%
      - Armament: 3.305 tons, 7,1%
      - Armour Deck: 6.198 tons, 13,3%
      - Conning Tower: 385 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 3.872 tons, 8,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.503 tons, 16,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 16.153 tons, 34,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 83 tons, 0,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10.791 lbs / 4.895 Kg = 6,4 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 4,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37
   Metacentric height 11,2 ft / 3,4 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 2,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,572
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 9,68 ft / 2,95 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,87 ft / 8,80 m
      - Forecastle (16%):   21,16 ft / 6,45 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Quarterdeck (13%):   21,16 ft / 6,45 m
      - Stern:      22,31 ft / 6,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,82 ft / 6,35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159,1%
   Waterplane Area: 66.686 Square feet or 6.195 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 422 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,16
      - Longitudinal: 0,44
      - Overall: 0,18
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ich seh schon , Ihr habt des ideale "Spielzeug" gefunden ...

:D

Jan-Hendrik

@Jan-Hendrik,

ja, macht schon Spaß!

@Lutscha,

Springsharp arbeitet mit Annäherungswerten. Da ist dies und jenes nicht genau möglich.

@Huszar,

unter Hochsee hätte ich gern cs: 1,00. Ich weiß, es geht auch geringer, aber ich bin halt ein wenig von Tirpitz indoktriniert. Außerdem ist dein T-Boot die reinste Hölle für deine Besatzung.

Als ob Alex Rücksicht auf die Besatzung nehmen würde ... :D

Jan-Hendrik

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Wieso Rücksicht?

Ein T-Boot ist doch kein Kreuzfahrtsdampfer! Als nächstes wird noch ein Swimming-Pool und ein Tanzparkett verlangt?!?!?!?


:D  :D

Ich weiss schon, mit etwas Übung kann man auch sowas unterbringen...

mfg

alex

@Huszar,

ja, solche Sachen sind ein "must be"  :)  !
Steigert die Moral ungemein und hält die Mannschaft bei Laune.

So, noch ein letztes mal die Goeben geupdated. Hab einen "Zitadellpanzer" installiert, der einen decapping layer repräsentiert. Dadurch konnte ich den GP dünner machen und die Seefähigkeit verbessern. (das werde ich jetzt bei jedem grösseren Schiff von mir machen) Ist ne kleine Schummellei, da der d-layer ja nicht die volle Höhe
eines schräggestellten GPs benötigt. :D Spring Sharp macht da kaum einen Unterschied.

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.050 t light; 25.002 t standard; 29.982 t normal; 33.966 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,98 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 89,73 ft) x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   223,41 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 27,35 m)  x 8,50 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 727,53lbs / 330,00kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7.161 lbs / 3.248 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   401,77 ft / 122,46 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
Decapping-Plate:   1,97" / 50 mm   401,77 ft / 122,46 m   8,20  ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 86% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   401,77 ft / 122,46 m   24,21 ft / 7,38 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 133.032 shp / 99.242 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.964 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £10,560 million / $42,240 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 8.466 tons, 28,2%
      - Belts: 1.849 tons, 6,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 709 tons, 2,4%
      - Armament: 904 tons, 3,0%
      - Armour Deck: 4.841 tons, 16,1%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.779 tons, 12,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.367 tons, 34,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.932 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52.018 lbs / 23.595 Kg = 77,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
   Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 16,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,92 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   27,89 ft / 8,50 m (26,25 ft / 8,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   24,90 ft / 7,59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,0%
   Waterplane Area: 44.313 Square feet or 4.117 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 745 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,43
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

So, hab mal ne Variante in Sachen Seefähigkeit gemacht. (soll angbeblich auch viel mehr aushalten) Der Entwurf schlägt zwar eure in jeder Hinsicht (Seefähigkeit, Bewaffnung, Nehmerqualitäten, ist aber nicht mein eigentlicher Favorit, das bleibt der obige)
Ein Problem ist, dass die Seefähigkeit einen immensen Anteil an der Sinksicherheit hat und die Panzerung unterrepräsentiert scheint. (nat. steht da penetrating non critical hits und mehr Panzerung verhindert diese, aber das sieht man so nicht)

DKM Seefähig, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.133 t light; 25.002 t standard; 29.982 t normal; 33.966 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   734,74 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 89,73 ft) x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   223,95 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 27,35 m)  x 8,50 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 727,53lbs / 330,00kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5.450 lbs / 2.472 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   371,85 ft / 113,34 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   1,97" / 50 mm   371,85 ft / 113,34 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 79% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3,54" / 90 mm   371,85 ft / 113,34 m   26,05 ft / 7,94 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 133.032 shp / 99.242 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.964 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £9,722 million / $38,888 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 638 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 7.716 tons, 25,7%
      - Belts: 1.660 tons, 5,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.270 tons, 4,2%
      - Armament: 749 tons, 2,5%
      - Armour Deck: 3.873 tons, 12,9%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.779 tons, 12,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.401 tons, 38,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.849 tons, 19,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     65.493 lbs / 29.707 Kg = 97,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 10,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 16,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,92 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      36,09 ft / 11,00 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   36,09 ft / 11,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Stern:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   33,63 ft / 10,25 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 228,0%
   Waterplane Area: 44.313 Square feet or 4.117 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 709 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,77
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Ich hab mal heute bei der Arbeit die ursprünglichen 3 (bzw 4) Entwürfe ein wenig ausgewertet.

Mir sind folgende Sachen aufgefallen:
- Das Projekt York hat kein Vorschiff (somit müsste Turm A direkt über dem Bug liegen)
- Beim Projekt Goeben fehlt die Seitenhöhe für einen Schräggestellen Gürtelpanzer (sollte doch so über 66% des Freibords + etwas Unterwasserschutz haben)

Über den Daumen gepeilt haben wir folgende Liste:
1. Platz: Goeben (vor allem wegen der enormen Feuerkraft, große Abstriche bei der Panzerung)
2. Platz: Gneisenau (ebenfalls Feuerkraft)
3. Platz: Scharnhorst (Vorsprung nur wegen den zusätzlichen Torpedorohren)
4. Platz: Yorck

Hab mal ausserdem etwas mit dem Rechner von Okun gespielt:
220mm Gürtel und 120 mm DEck bedeuten komplette Immunität gegen 20,3cm, 33cm kann Deck nur über ca. 27.000-28.000 Meter Durchschlagen, wobei Gürtelpanzer unzureichend ist (mit zusätzlich 80mm Böschungen habe ich es noch nicht ausgerechnet)

mfg

alex

Lies meinen obigen Post zum Thema Panzerung. Mein Entwurf hat die mit Abstand beste Deckspanzerung und eine modernes Seitenpanzerprinzip. (zumindest angedacht ;) )
Desweiteren habe ich die beste Turmpanzerung. Aber da Seefähigkeit über alles geht, wird das nicht so dargestellt. Wenn Du die Dicken vergleichst, hab ich keine Abstriche, bei der Panzerungfläche eher.

Mit dem ersten Platz bin ich allerdings einverstanden! :D

Edit: Decapping sollte recht effizient gegen 33cm sein. (mein GP reich aber nat. nicht)

Wenn du eine hochgezogene Seitenpanzerung möchtest ( á lá KGV), bräuchtest du eine Höhe von ca. 5-6 meter. Dazu noch decapping (als upper armor dargestellt)

so etwa:

Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   574,15 ft / 175,00 m   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   8,66" / 220 mm     82,02 ft / 25,00 m   19,69 ft / 6,00 m

- Mid (50 %):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m

mfg

alex

Die SoDak hat 4,59m + DL, da brauch mein Schiff dafür ja wohl nicht 5-6m oder was meinst Du?

Hier mal die 90000 Tonnen Yamato:

Yokozuna, Japan Superschlachtschiff laid down 1939

Displacement:
   85.793 t light; 90.001 t standard; 95.515 t normal; 99.926 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   903,82 ft / 885,83 ft x 131,23 ft (Bulges 164,04 ft) x 36,09 ft (normal load)
   275,48 m / 270,00 m x 40,00 m (Bulges 50,00 m)  x 11,00 m

Armament:
     8 - 20,08" / 510 mm guns (2x4 guns), 4.850,17lbs / 2.200,00kg shells, 1939 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     40 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (20x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1939 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
     50 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns (25x2 guns), 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1939 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     120 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (40x3 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1939 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 40.754 lbs / 18.486 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15,7" / 400 mm   403,54 ft / 123,00 m   13,75 ft / 4,19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Decapping Plate:   1,97" / 50 mm   403,54 ft / 123,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
     Main Belt covers 70% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      8,27" / 210 mm   403,54 ft / 123,00 m   34,51 ft / 10,52 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   25,6" / 650 mm   13,8" / 350 mm      22,8" / 580 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   1,18" / 30 mm            -
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm   0,39" / 10 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 11,81" / 300 mm, Conning tower: 19,69" / 500 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 6 shafts, 252.445 shp / 188.324 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 12.000nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9.926 tons

Complement:
   2.716 - 3.531

Cost:
   £44,008 million / $176,032 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4.292 tons, 4,5%
   Armour: 36.547 tons, 38,3%
      - Belts: 4.578 tons, 4,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 4.261 tons, 4,5%
      - Armament: 6.758 tons, 7,1%
      - Armour Deck: 20.063 tons, 21,0%
      - Conning Tower: 886 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 6.830 tons, 7,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 37.525 tons, 39,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9.722 tons, 10,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 0,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     176.195 lbs / 79.921 Kg = 43,5 x 20,1 " / 510 mm shells or 43,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 10,8 ft / 3,3 m
   Roll period: 20,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,637
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 35,26 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      42,65 ft / 13,00 m
      - Forecastle (12%):   39,37 ft / 12,00 m (36,09 ft / 11,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      36,09 ft / 11,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (12%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m (32,81 ft / 10,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   34,05 ft / 10,38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 227,1%
   Waterplane Area: 91.822 Square feet or 8.531 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 281 lbs/sq ft or 1.372 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,80
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

@ Lutscha,

hol mal deine schwere Artillerie mal wieder herunter! 5xx mm? Bei Leyte hatte sich die Hauptartillerie schon als zu durchschlagend erwiesen. Allerdings im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes: Eine Seite rein, andere Seite raus! Ich glaube kaum, dass man auf eine noch schwerere Artillerie ausgewichen wäre.

100mm als Zweitbewaffnung? Hier wäre sicherlich die 155er eingesetzt worden.

Dafür könntest du (weiß nur nicht, wie das ausgesehen hätte) die 100 mm-Geschütze an Stelle der 76er einsetzen. Diese auch als Fla-Waffen einsetzbaren Geschütze waren ja die Hauptbewaffnung der Fla-Zerstörer-Klasse Akizuki.

Müsste halt nur noch aufgeteilt werden

als Ziel dient dir wohl diese hier?

(http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/yokozf10.jpg)
(http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/yokozuf7.jpg)


Displacement 88,000 tons
Armament  4 x 3 18.1"/45
7 x 3 (later 3 x 3) 6.1"/60
20 x 5"/40 DP
zillions x 25mm AA
4 x 13mm AA
Speed 31 knots

(Quelle www.combinedfleet.com)

Gruß

Dominik

Erstens ist es unbekannt, ob die Yamato bei Samar etwas getroffen hat   (auch wenn ein augenzeuge dies berichtet haben soll), und 2tens sollte sie mit AP getroffen haben (sie schoss nur Anfangs mit AP), lag es nicht am Kaliber, dass die Granaten die Hülle ohne Explodieren durchschlagen haben/hätten, sondern am extrem langen Zünder der Typ 91 Granaten, die für Unterwasserflugbahnen optimiert waren.

3ten ist das ein Entwurf für 90000 Tonnen.
4tens sind die 15,5er Scheisse.

5tens ist das mein Entwurf, der besser sein soll als der eigentliche.

Wie wärs, wenn wir ein "Preisausschreiben" für einen M-Kreuzer veranstalten würden? Vorgaben nach Abmachung. Je ein Entwurf pro Kopf.


mfg

alex

Welche Vorgaben hatten die M-Kreuzer?

Laut Whitley: Dt. Kreuzer im 2WK:

Kiellegung 1938
Standardverdrangung: 8.000 tonns
Höchstgeschwindigkeit: 36 Knoten
Reichweite: 5.800 sm @ 20 Knoten
Bewaffnung: 8*15cm
4 sFLAK
12 lFLAK
8 Torpedorohre
Panzerung:
Gürtel: 50mm
Deck: 25mm
(und natürlich CS 1.0, Seegängigkeit über 1,05)


mfg

alex

Verdammt, das ist echt schwer hinzukriegen, den GP kriegt man nicht über die volle Länge, der will 200m.

36kn Höchst- und 20kn Marschgeschwindigkeit... -_-

Mehr Panzerung geht da nicht und die Türme müssen auch aus Pappe sein.

jaja...

bei leichten Schiffen zeigt sich der Meister  :D


mfg

alex

Nein, nicht bei leichten Schiffen, sondern bei extremen Geschwindigkeitsanforderungen mit extrem hoher Marschgeschwindigkeit.
Besser hab ichs gestern nicht hingekriegt.

Armament:
     8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (2x4 guns), 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1938 Model
     Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (2x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1938 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1938 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1938 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1.136 lbs / 515 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   8,69 ft / 2,65 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      0,39" / 10 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   18,90 ft / 5,76 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1,57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 110.698 shp / 82.581 Kw = 36,00 kts
   Range 5.800nm at 20,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.150 tons

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £4,588 million / $18,353 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 142 tons, 1,5%
   Armour: 864 tons, 9,4%
      - Belts: 288 tons, 3,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 116 tons, 1,3%
      - Armament: 125 tons, 1,4%
      - Armour Deck: 320 tons, 3,5%
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 3.031 tons, 32,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.590 tons, 39,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.479 tons, 16,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.342 lbs / 3.330 Kg = 68,5 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,396
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Mid (80%):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,67 ft / 6,30 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,6%
   Waterplane Area: 17.563 Square feet or 1.632 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 498 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,89
      - Longitudinal: 2,78
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

@Lutscha + Huszar,

das wäre die originale Vorgabe.

Kreuzer "M", Deutschland Leichter Kreuzer laid down 1938

Displacement:
   9.326 t light; 9.633 t standard; 11.419 t normal; 12.847 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   595,18 ft / 583,99 ft x 55,77 ft x 22,31 ft (normal load)
   181,41 m / 178,00 m x 17,00 m  x 6,80 m

Armament:
     8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1938 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1938 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1938 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1938 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 920 lbs / 417 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   379,59 ft / 115,70 m   8,96 ft / 2,73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0,59" / 15 mm   379,59 ft / 115,70 m   20,47 ft / 6,24 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 0,79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 143.882 shp / 107.336 Kw = 35,50 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 19,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.214 tons

Complement:
   552 - 718

Cost:
   £5,493 million / $21,973 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 115 tons, 1,0%
   Armour: 913 tons, 8,0%
      - Belts: 278 tons, 2,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 170 tons, 1,5%
      - Armament: 91 tons, 0,8%
      - Armour Deck: 331 tons, 2,9%
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 3.940 tons, 34,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.258 tons, 37,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.093 tons, 18,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10.359 lbs / 4.699 Kg = 100,6 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 12,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,98 ft / 6,70 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,7%
   Waterplane Area: 22.731 Square feet or 2.112 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 500 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 2,03
      - Overall: 1,07
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

@Lutscha+Huszar,

würde man die Geschwindigkeit auf 32kn absenken, käme sogar ein brauchbarer Entwurf heraus.

Kreuzer "M", Deutschland Leichter Kreuzer laid down 1938

Displacement:
   9.304 t light; 9.633 t standard; 11.419 t normal; 12.847 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   595,18 ft / 583,99 ft x 55,77 ft x 22,31 ft (normal load)
   181,41 m / 178,00 m x 17,00 m  x 6,80 m

Armament:
     8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1938 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1938 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1938 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1938 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1.125 lbs / 510 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   379,59 ft / 115,70 m   8,96 ft / 2,73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0,59" / 15 mm   379,59 ft / 115,70 m   20,47 ft / 6,24 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   3,15" / 80 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 93.603 shp / 69.828 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 19,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.214 tons

Complement:
   552 - 718

Cost:
   £4,524 million / $18,094 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 141 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 2.549 tons, 22,3%
      - Belts: 834 tons, 7,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 170 tons, 1,5%
      - Armament: 178 tons, 1,6%
      - Armour Deck: 1.325 tons, 11,6%
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 2.563 tons, 22,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.952 tons, 34,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.115 tons, 18,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17.228 lbs / 7.814 Kg = 167,3 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 13,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,98 ft / 6,70 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,7%
   Waterplane Area: 22.731 Square feet or 2.112 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 464 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,88
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Na super, ich habs bei 8k standard gemacht...

Nochmal komplett:
Geht Nicht, Deutschlan M-Kreuzer laid down 1938

Displacement:
   7.727 t light; 8.011 t standard; 9.206 t normal; 10.161 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   531,09 ft / 524,93 ft x 52,49 ft (Bulges 59,06 ft) x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   161,88 m / 160,00 m x 16,00 m (Bulges 18,00 m)  x 8,00 m

Armament:
     8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (2x4 guns), 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1938 Model
     Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (2x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1938 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1938 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1938 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1.136 lbs / 515 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   8,69 ft / 2,65 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      0,39" / 10 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   18,90 ft / 5,76 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1,57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 110.698 shp / 82.581 Kw = 36,00 kts
   Range 5.800nm at 20,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.150 tons

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £4,588 million / $18,353 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 142 tons, 1,5%
   Armour: 864 tons, 9,4%
      - Belts: 288 tons, 3,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 116 tons, 1,3%
      - Armament: 125 tons, 1,4%
      - Armour Deck: 320 tons, 3,5%
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 3.031 tons, 32,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.590 tons, 39,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.479 tons, 16,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.342 lbs / 3.330 Kg = 68,5 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,396
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Mid (80%):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,67 ft / 6,30 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,6%
   Waterplane Area: 17.563 Square feet or 1.632 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 498 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,89
      - Longitudinal: 2,78
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

@Lutscha,

jahh, deshalb weist du jetzt auch, warum das K-Amt der Seekriegsleitung mitgeteilt hat, daß der Entwurf mit 8.000t nicht machbar ist.

Sagen wir kaum machbar, der Entwurf ist stuhl, aber es geht einfach nicht besser...

Btw, unterstützt mal das warshipsprojectboard, beim alten Forum gabs sogar ein user, der Informationen direkt aus Japan brachte, allerdings in mühsamer Googleübersetzung, aber mit wirklich guten Hintergrundinformationen.

Hiers ist mal ne Zeichnung, wie meine Goeben aussehen würde. Zwar nicht von mir, aber egal. :D (unterste Variante)

Lediglich die 10,5er wären durch überhöhte 12,8er ausgetauscht worden, Platz für Flak ist auch da.

http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19&mforum=warshipprojects

@Lutscha,

wo sind in deinem Entwurf die 15cm?

Ach, ich bin durch den Suff von gestern völlig durch den Wind, das ist mir überhaupt nicht aufgefallen... ^^ Die 15er wären bei mir sinnvollerweise 12,8er. :D

Edit: Herr Fujimoto muss auch betrunken gewesen sein, als er sein dream battleship designte, wie soll dieses Monster 59k tonnen wiegen können bei der Panzerung und Bewaffnung?!

Wirklich ein dream BB... ^^

1934 FUJIMOTO BATTLESHIP DESIGN <8>

Displacement:(tons)<9>
    Standard:      50,000
    Trials:        59,000
Length:                951'6"
Beam:                  124'8"
Draft:
    Trials:            32'2"
Armament:
    Main Battery:      12-20" (4 x 3)
    Secondary:         16-155mm
    Anti-Aircraft:     10-5"
                       some machine guns
Aircraft:               12 (3 catapults)
Armor:
    Main Belt:         16"
    Deck:              11"
Power Plant:            mixed turbine/diesel,
                       140,000 shp
Speed:                  30 knots
Range:                  12,000 nautical miles at 16 knots

Der Rest des Artikels ist auch interessant: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/Japanese.navy/jap_yamoto_bat.txt

Und hier mal ein Bildchen davon: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bk/NWS/Imperial_Japanese_Navy/Fujimoto_dream_battleship/image-html/Db1.html

Mal gucken, wie schwer das Teil bei Spring Sharp ist...

Geht nicht Variante:

Dream Battleship, Japan Biggest Bastard Ever laid down 1937
DESIGN FAILURE: Overall load weight too much for hull

Displacement:
   46.525 t light; 50.482 t standard; 55.000 t normal; 58.614 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   951,44 ft / 951,44 ft x 124,67 ft x 32,81 ft (normal load)
   290,00 m / 290,00 m x 38,00 m  x 10,00 m

Armament:
     12 - 20,08" / 510 mm guns (3x4 guns), 4.047,43lbs / 1.835,88kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
     16 - 6,10" / 155 mm guns (4x4 guns), 113,62lbs / 51,54kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
     10 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (5x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1937 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 51.012 lbs / 23.139 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   16,1" / 410 mm   639,76 ft / 195,00 m   13,39 ft / 4,08 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      7,87" / 200 mm   639,76 ft / 195,00 m   30,12 ft / 9,18 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   23,6" / 600 mm   15,7" / 400 mm      23,6" / 600 mm
   2nd:   2,36" / 60 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      2,36" / 60 mm

  - Armour deck: 11,00" / 279 mm, Conning tower: 19,69" / 500 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 144.835 shp / 108.047 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 12.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.132 tons

Complement:
   1.795 - 2.334

Cost:
   £41,163 million / $164,654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6.377 tons, 11,6%
   Armour: 38.294 tons, 69,6%
      - Belts: 5.856 tons, 10,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 5.614 tons, 10,2%
      - Armament: 9.569 tons, 17,4%
      - Armour Deck: 16.642 tons, 30,3%
      - Conning Tower: 613 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 4.014 tons, 7,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: -2.760 tons, -5,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8.475 tons, 15,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     0 lbs / 0 Kg = 0,0 x 20,1 " / 510 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
   Metacentric height 7,3 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 19,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 36,02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   26,48 ft / 8,07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 227,8%
   Waterplane Area: 81.779 Square feet or 7.598 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 56%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: -25 lbs/sq ft or -124 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: -0,07
      - Longitudinal: -0,10
      - Overall: -0,09
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Dream Battleship, Japan Biggest Bastard Ever laid down 1937

Displacement:
   111.434 t light; 116.791 t standard; 125.000 t normal; 131.567 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   951,44 ft / 951,44 ft x 144,36 ft (Bulges 157,48 ft) x 32,81 ft (normal load)
   290,00 m / 290,00 m x 44,00 m (Bulges 48,00 m)  x 10,00 m

Armament:
     12 - 20,08" / 510 mm guns (3x4 guns), 4.047,43lbs / 1.835,88kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 6,10" / 155 mm guns (4x4 guns), 113,62lbs / 51,54kg shells, 1937 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
     10 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (5x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1937 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 51.012 lbs / 23.139 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   16,1" / 410 mm   639,76 ft / 195,00 m   13,39 ft / 4,08 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      7,87" / 200 mm   639,76 ft / 195,00 m   30,12 ft / 9,18 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   23,6" / 600 mm   15,7" / 400 mm      23,6" / 600 mm
   2nd:   2,36" / 60 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      2,36" / 60 mm

  - Armour deck: 11,00" / 279 mm, Conning tower: 19,69" / 500 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 290.732 shp / 216.886 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 12.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 14.776 tons

Complement:
   3.323 - 4.321

Cost:
   £56,643 million / $226,573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6.377 tons, 5,1%
   Armour: 50.636 tons, 40,5%
      - Belts: 6.069 tons, 4,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 5.614 tons, 4,5%
      - Armament: 10.371 tons, 8,3%
      - Armour Deck: 27.522 tons, 22,0%
      - Conning Tower: 1.060 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 8.058 tons, 6,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 45.763 tons, 36,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13.566 tons, 10,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 0,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     224.325 lbs / 101.752 Kg = 55,4 x 20,1 " / 510 mm shells or 54,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 13,6 ft / 4,1 m
   Roll period: 17,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,890
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 35,40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Forecastle (10%):   32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m (26,25 ft / 8,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   29,30 ft / 8,93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 228,9%
   Waterplane Area: 135.244 Square feet or 12.565 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 272 lbs/sq ft or 1.326 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,14
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

hi
ich habe keine ahnung was ich da alles eingestellt habe bei spingsharp würde aber gerne wissen was ihr von meinem kreuzer haltet .

Condor, deutschland leichter kreuzer laid down 1938

Displacement:
9.237 t light; 9.519 t standard; 10.911 t normal; 12.025 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   657,16 ft / 623,36 ft x 55,77 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   200,30 m / 190,00 m x 17,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1938 Model
             Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
             on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1938 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1938 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 926 lbs / 420 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   557,74 ft / 170,00 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 138% of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      1,18" / 30 mm

  - Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2,36" / 60 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 124.404 shp / 92.806 Kw = 36,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 20,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.506 tons

Complement:
   533 - 693

Cost:
   £5,058 million / $20,232 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 116 tons, 1,1%
   Armour: 1.339 tons, 12,3%
      - Belts: 713 tons, 6,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 138 tons, 1,3%
      - Armour Deck: 464 tons, 4,2%
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 3.406 tons, 31,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.375 tons, 40,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.675 tons, 15,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9.909 lbs / 4.494 Kg = 96,2 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 13,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,558
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,18 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   22,24 ft / 6,78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192,8%
   Waterplane Area: 25.456 Square feet or 2.365 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,73
      - Overall: 1,05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent



mfg dirk

Hallo DST!

Kommentare erwünscht?, mach ich:

200,30 m / 190,00 m x 17,00 m x 6,00 m
... SEEHR schlank, und bei dem hohen Freibord von 6+ m sowie
Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
...fürchte ich, dass sie bald mal Walzer tanzt.

Armament: 116 tons, 1,1%
Armour: 1.339 tons, 12,3%
- Belts: 713 tons, 6,5%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 138 tons, 1,3%
- Armour Deck: 464 tons, 4,2%
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0,2%........bis hierher galub ich´s

Machinery: 3.406 tons, 31,2%....das ist seeehr viel für ein so schmales Rümpfchen.
Lieber 2-3 kn und geschätzte 25.000 shp und 750 ts weniger, dann käme auch wieder eine Zweiwellenanlage in Betracht (macht bei der geringen Breite mehr Sinn)

Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.375 tons, 40,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.675 tons, 15,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%.... da wäre ein wenig Reserve doch recht hilfreich.


Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m...wie gesagt, SEHR wenig.
Roll period: 13,5 seconds...glaub ich schlicht und einfach nicht. Springsharp spuckt da seltsamste Werte aus.

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %...na eben. A wacklige Gschicht!

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,558...den braucht sie auch, um halbwegs stabil zu sein.
Werte wie weiter oben um 0.37 o.ä. sind nonsense;

Length to Beam Ratio: 11,18 : 1... ein Bleistift, fürwahr!
'Natural speed' for length: 28,09 kts....in der Theorie
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %....au Backe, is das viel!
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50....Wackel, wackel...
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m... ich dachte, Transom?
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Mid (50%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 22,24 ft / 6,78 m...zeichne dir die Linie mal auf, das ist eine Schisprungschanze...

...soo, ich hoffe, du bist mir jetzt nicht böse, nachdem ich einfach mal nur ganz unweihnachtlich-kritisch war :)

Ciao,
Harold

böse ?  ich ? nein auf keinen fall , wie gesagt bei den meisten sachen weiß ich nicht mal was das bedeutet  8)  

transom stern und stern overhang geht nicht zusammen   :oops:  

aber springsharp ist ein nettes spielzeug auch wenn man nicht weiß was alles genau bedeutet.

habe mir auch dein program bzw die exel liste gesaugt aber keine ahnung wie das geht .

und hier hätte ich noch nen bleistifft zum anspitzen ^^

leichter kreuzer 203mm, deutschland leichter kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   8.436 t light; 8.743 t standard; 10.171 t normal; 11.312 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   671,32 ft / 656,17 ft x 59,06 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   204,62 m / 200,00 m x 18,00 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
     6 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (2x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     40 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1.541 lbs / 699 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm   492,13 ft / 150,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115% of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,57" / 40 mm   1,57" / 40 mm      1,18" / 30 mm

  - Armour deck: 0,79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3,15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 86.527 shp / 64.549 Kw = 34,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.569 tons

Complement:
   506 - 658

Cost:
   £4,079 million / $16,316 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 193 tons, 1,9%
   Armour: 735 tons, 7,2%
      - Belts: 230 tons, 2,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 112 tons, 1,1%
      - Armour Deck: 361 tons, 3,5%
      - Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 2.458 tons, 24,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.801 tons, 47,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.734 tons, 17,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12.695 lbs / 5.758 Kg = 49,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 14,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,98 ft / 6,70 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197,5%
   Waterplane Area: 24.754 Square feet or 2.300 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 535 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,92
      - Overall: 1,01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


mfg dirk

Servus Dirk,

aufpassen bei cB von 0.4!! Zum Vergleich: Leipzig lag bei 0.548, und die war nun wahrlich nicht fett...

..."habe mir auch dein program bzw die exel liste gesaugt aber keine ahnung wie das geht ."

...fang einfach bei "Form" an, indem du die Länge CWL eingibst, in Abt 8 oder 9 die maximale Breite, und dann die Breitenwerte über die Kurve (Anklicken und Verschieben der Punkte) veränderst.
Dann gibst du noch den Tiefgang bei leerem Schiff ein, sowie die zusätzliche Tiefertauchung bei Vollausrüstung (die Differenz zum maximalen T).
Mit den Völligkeitswerten spiel dich vorerst noch nicht, sonder schick mir per pn deine Mailadresse, und dann kann ich dich -wenn du magst- ein wenig supporten.

Ciao,
Harold

Nicht böse sein!

Also:

Zitat6 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (2x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Raised mounts bedeutet bei SS, dass die Türme deutlich über das Deck hinausragen. bei 3 Türmen wäre 1 überhöhte am wahrscheinlichsten.

Zitat40 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists

keine sFLAK, zu viele leichte. Die 20mm sind meistens Deck Mount - hoist, also Aufzug solltest du eher bei Waffen über 75mm einbauen.

Zitat6 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Wieso Unterwasserrohre? Hull space wird davon überfüllt, und die Standfästigkeit leidet auch darunter. Lieber Deckrohre.

ZitatBelts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 492,13 ft / 150,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 115% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 1,18" / 30 mm

- Armour deck: 0,79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3,15" / 80 mm

Hoffentlich erfährt das der Gegner nicht - sonnst schickt er Kananoneboote gegen dein Schiff - WEnn du schon auf Panzerung verzichtest, dann konsequent.

ZitatDiesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 86.527 shp / 64.549 Kw

Ob so viel PS die beiden Wellen aushalten? Recht scharf an der Grenze.

ZitatMiscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,5%

jup, 250 Tonnen sind das Minimum. Eher noch etwas mehr (T-Rohre, Flieger, Baureserve, sonstiges Zeugs - da kommt schnell vieles zusammen)

ZitatSurvivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12.695 lbs / 5.758 Kg = 49,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes

Extrem wenig! Da dein Panzer sehr dünn ist, gehen praktisch alle Geschosse durch - Schiff säuft sehr schnell ab.

ZitatFreeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Mid (50%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m

Für einen 9.000er recht viel Freibord. Zum Vergelich: Nürnberg hatte einen Freibord von ca. 6 Meter.

ZitatBlock coefficient: 0,400

Halte ich ein wenig zu wenig. Um die 0,5 wäre es realistischer. Eher noch mehr.

Schiffsbautechnisch kann Harold es besser begutachten.

Wie gesagt, nicht böse sein  :wink:


mfg

alex

Hallo,

Hier dein Entwurf etwas überarbeitet:

ZitatDST, Deutschland Washington-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   9 611 t light; 9 967 t standard; 11 470 t normal; 12 673 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   626,32 ft / 606,96 ft x 67,26 ft x 20,83 ft (normal load)
   190,90 m / 185,00 m x 20,50 m  x 6,35 m

Armament:
     6 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 269,00lbs / 122,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     6 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (3x2 guns), 34,00lbs / 15,42kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,64lbs / 0,74kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0,32lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1935 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1 835 lbs / 832 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,56" / 65 mm   462,60 ft / 141,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,77" / 45 mm   462,60 ft / 141,00 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,54" / 90 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   0,59" / 15 mm   0,39" / 10 mm      0,59" / 15 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 78 333 shp / 58 436 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 706 tons

Complement:
   553 - 720

Cost:
   £4,239 million / $16,955 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 220 tons, 1,9 %
   Armour: 2 272 tons, 19,8 %
      - Belts: 476 tons, 4,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 497 tons, 4,3 %
      - Armament: 265 tons, 2,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 004 tons, 8,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 2 225 tons, 19,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 593 tons, 40,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 859 tons, 16,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17 843 lbs / 8 093 Kg = 69,9 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Stern:      21,33 ft / 6,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,40 ft / 6,22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 27 570 Square feet or 2 561 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 540 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,40
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

mfg

alex

...gib ihr noch ein bisschen mehr an cB, so um die 0.52 herum ... 0.472 ist gaaar recht wenig; und dann bekommst du auch noch ne stabilere Metazentrik und brauchst nicht soooo viel Seitenhöhe, weder an Freibord noch an Tiefgang (ja: der verringert sich dann auch a bissl).

Soweit aus der hydrodynamischen Ecke,

Harold

PS, mein Angebot für quicke Einweisung ind die kalkU per pn steht nach wie vor, Dirk, nur bin ich morgen/übermorgen verhindert (durch mein sehr wohlgeformtes Christkind...)  :)

vielen dank für die ganzen infos .

werde mich nochmal damit beschäftigen , mal sehen ob noch was brauchbares bei raus kommt .

was die einweisung betrifft , würde ich gerne in anspruch nehmen das angebot aber wohl erst ende jannuar . da ich am 27.12 nach lissabon fliege und dort dann der start zur rallye dakar ist und die ist erst am 16.01 zuende .

mfg dirk

Wat treibt he denn, vielleicht gar mitfahren :) ?
Ernsthafte Frage...

Hab deinen Kreuzer mal kurz durch die Kalkulation geschickt, ihr folgende -nicht sehr divergierende- Daten verpasst:

- Hauptabmessungen wie gegeben, jedoch Tiefgang 6.15 m
- 9611 / 12673 ts  light ship / full load
- cB rauf auf 0.5498 (die 0.548 von Leipzig waren mein Vorbild)
- Formschwerpunkt dadurch bei light ship 1.78 m ü Kiel, bei full load 2.43 m ü Kiel - das macht sie ein bisschen stabiler...
- cP liegt bei 0.6713; cS für den Hauptspant bei 0.8191.

Anbei ein screenshot der dazugehörigen Kurven.

Ciao,
Harold

hiho
jo ich darf da mitfahren, aber als mechaniker . ist schon meine zweite dakar.
also alle eurosport gucken und vw die daumen drücken ^^.

mfg dirk

Cheerioh!

Und als MECHANIKER ? Wart´s ab, bis du zurück bist : wer unter Wüstenbedingungen Zündeinstellungen vornehmen kann, wird HIER mit Fragen nicht verschont werden!
In bocca di lupo,
Harold