S 62 Tarnung

[Arjan]

Hi Gentlemen,

Urs: Interesting, I didn't know that S 69 shot down a Swordfish plane.I wonder if anyone has made a model of a Schnellboot in Cerberus Tarnung ?

Ola: Thanks a lot for the interesting pics of S 52. It does surprise me to see the combination of air recognition stripes on the foredeck, a C38 Back Flak with the original sliding covers and a 4cm Bofors gun. At least to me it looks like the later C38 2cm gun with pantograph and not the earlier C30 one. Other boats (S 102, S 49 and S 51) had received their Bofors guns in February or March of 1943.

Last week I also had a closer look at the Italian MAS boats that were assigned to the Black Sea. To my surprise these Italian boats do not seem to have had the recognition stripes on the foredeck whereas these were usually present on MAS boats operating in the Mediterranean.

Gruss,

Arjan

[Urs Heßling]

hi,

Here is S 52 with red stripes and a 4 cm Bofors gun. I have not found anything about the Bofors gun in HMA or Sevastopol in summer 1943.

S 52 was at Konstanza from 19.6. up to 15.8.1943. I presume that the Bofors gun was added in that timeframe.
Regrettably, there's no KTB for those weeks.

greetings Urs

[alo41]

I didn't know that S 69 shot down a Swordfish plane.I wonder if anyone has made a model of a Schnellboot in Cerberus Tarnung ?

Thanks a lot for the interesting pics of S 52. it looks like the later C38 2cm gun with pantograph and not the earlier C30 one.

Italian boats do not seem to have had the recognition stripes on the foredeck whereas these were usually present on MAS boats operating in the Mediterranean.

Hi Arjan,
There is one Bundesarchive photo probebly showing S 69 after CERBERUS. It looks like they are painting over the yellow on the front deck with a darker color (note the paintcan). I also have a photo of S 69 with the swordfish kill marking (this marking can also be seen on the photo of the camouflaged S 69 in Norway, link, post #1896: https://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=18105.1890)

The C30 gun was never used as front gun. There are at least two diffrent mounts for the C38 front gun (early/late).

I think the MAS boats had stripes at some times in the Black sea. I think I have seen a photo but I cant find it at the moment. I dont have any clear information on when they were applied or when they were removed. My best guess is that they were used from late 1942 to mid 1943. I am quite shure they were gone when Italy capitulated in Sep 1943 (I have never seen a Kalotte boat with stripes). The stripes were also used by Rumainia and Bulgaria in the Black sea.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Ola,
Danke für die tollen Photos  

Gruß, Urs

[Arjan]

Nice bit of research Ola and also thanks a lot for the lovely photos ! You may be right that the C30 Flak was not used for the Brunnen but I'm not sure. These two guns were very similar in appearance (apart from their mount) and one would require very good detail pics to be sure. The C38 gun did have a much higher rate of fire than the earlier C30 gun though.
In their new kit Italeri provide the very same gun for both the bow and midships 2cm gun. So they seem to think that the C30 was also used for the bow gun.

I think you are right that the stripes were no longer used on the Mas boats in the Black Sea by the time of their surrender. At least, judging from this pic which no doubt you are also referring to.



Some time ago I downloaded this nice pic of a MAS at Iwan Baba (TOP right), it doesn't seem to have the air recognition stripes. The two Schnellboote (TOP left) do not seem to have the stripes either :



Talking about MAS boats, I also downloaded some pics of MAS boats in Kriegsmarine service. Location Porto Venere Italy, probably 24. Schnellboot Flottille.




Regards,

Arjan

[alo41]

I think the MAS boats had stripes at some times in the Black sea. I think I have seen a photo but I cant find it at the moment.

Now I have found the MAS photo with stripes in the Black sea. It was in the magazine "Die Krigesmarine" No. 20, 1942. (~late Oct). The photo was then probebly been taken a few weeks before. The quality is not the best.

/Alo

[Arjan]

Thanks Ola, I think this is probably the same photo and its quality is not much better :



Regards,

Arjan

[alo41]

Hi Arjan,

Yes, it is a PK (Propaganda Kompani?) picture that probebly were sent out as a press photo. Did you get any text with it?

The Schnellboote with your MAS Iwan Baba photo are S 42, S 45 and S 46 based on the split side window. It was only S 42 and S 45 that had them in the Black sea. They got there in May 1943 and the stripes were probebly not used then any more. The other photo shows the Bofors gun mount that should be there according to Urs's list.

There are more photos from Bobbau militaria showing these Schnellboots.

/Alo

[Arjan]

Hi Ola, I downloaded the Mas PIC from a Belgian photo archive whose name I forgot. I don't remember if there was a text.  These Bobbau pics also show armoured covers for the windows of the wheel house, first pic was taken at Iwan Baba. I wonder if these covers were a field conversion ?





Some 4.S-Flottille boats also had these armoured covers :




Regards,

Arjan

[alo41]

Hi Arjan,

The added armour was a standard addition and it always looks the same. It was done to a number of boats in (~10-15?) in 1942. You will find most of them by searching the HMA Schnellboote page for "Panzerung".

The Black sea boat with Panzerung is S 42 based on the electrical anchor winche (only on ~S 41-S 44).
The 4 SFtl boat is KeK's S 63 with the unexplained "2" on the front.

/Alo

[Arjan]

Thanks Ola  , adding these armored covers to a model would be a nice detail.

Regards,

Arjan