Torpedoing of HMS Kelly by S 31 on 9/10 May 1940

Begonnen von Platon Alexiades, 13 Juli 2022, 17:58:11

Vorheriges Thema - Nächstes Thema

0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast betrachten dieses Thema.

Platon Alexiades

Does anyone have the S 31 report of this action?

Many thanks.

Platon

Urs Heßling

hi, Platon,

leider habe ich vom KTB der 2. S-Fltl für den 1.- 15.5.1940 nur das KTB "Maschine" ... hilft das ?

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Ekki

This utterly useless vessel was designed after special wishes of Lord Mountbatten, who was her commander for most of the time and had some altering wishes in her construction. Utterly useless, because the nominally strong armament of 6 x 4.7 inch guns did not prevent her from getting torpedoed by an e-boat, she finally was sunk near Crete by German bombers, since her guns were not dual purpose and hadn t the elevation to fight dive bombing aircraft. The living quarters for the commanding officer on the other hand were way out of proportion in comparison to her sisters, thanks to Lord Mountbattens influence.

t-geronimo

ZitatUtterly useless, because the nominally strong armament of 6 x 4.7 inch guns did not prevent her from getting torpedoed by an e-boat

Dazu muss man aber auch sagen, dass das Gefecht bei sehr schlechten Sichtbedingungen (Nacht, Nebel) stattfand und sie meines Wissens noch kein Radar hatte.
Als Beispiel für die Sichtbedingungen: Beim Ablaufen hat S 33 gleich zwei britische Zerstörer gerammt, und das mit Sicherheit nicht mit Absicht.
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Ekki

Wusste ich nicht  :MV: :MLL: Müsste man mal einen Film draus machen...

Platon Alexiades

Hi Urs,

Many thanks for the document. It seems a detailed report of S 31 cannot be found. Years ago, I did extensive research on the Norway Campaign but failed to locate the report. This was before the microcomputer and the age of digital photography so navigating through my notes is a hassle!

Thanks also to Ekki and Thorsten for their comments. I can assume that Ekki is not a great fan of Mountbatten! On the other hand, as Thorsten points out, visibility was poor and this could have happened to the best destroyer captain.  I do not think that one can blame Mountbatten for HMS Kelly not being armed with dual purpose guns, this was common to all destroyers of the period.

Best regards,

Platon

Urs Heßling

"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Ekki

Agreed on the main armament, Platon, but many of these were re-armed in 1941 with 4-inch Mark V  AA guns and 20 mm Oerlikons, in this class and the succeeding ones, so obviously not KELLY

Ekki

And yes, Platon, my personal feelings toward Lord Mountbatten do no matter, but in the service he was higly criticized, since many officers in the navy assumed, that he got his assignments due to the near of him as a person to the royal family. This closeness on the other hand proved fatal for him, being murdered by the IRA in 1979. Nobody deserves this.

alo41

Hi,

I have attached Opdenhoffs description of the battle that he sent to his parents.

/Alo
Antworte im deutsch, bitte

Urs Heßling

moin, Ola,
toll  :MG: top  Wo hast Du denn so etwas her ? :TU:)

Der gefallene Bruder :  Martin Opdenhoff, Crew 1926

Beförderungen
01.04.1926  Matr (OA)
26.10.1926  Seekadett
01.04.1928  Fähnrich zur See
01.10.1930  Leutnant zur See
01.04.1933  Oberleutnant zur See
01.04.1936  Kapitänleutnant

Dienstposten
04.1926 - 07.1926 Rekrutenausbildung bei der II. Schiffsstammdivision der Ostsee in Stralsund.
07.1926 - 10.1926 Seemännische Grundausbildung auf dem Segelschulschiff Niobe
14.11.1926 - 23.03.1928 Auslandsreise auf dem Leichten Kreuzer Emden.
03.1928 bis 03.1929 Fähnrichs-Kriegsschulausbildung an der Marineschule Mürwik
1929 Teilnehmer Fachlehrgänge
1930 Wachoffizier, Torpedoboote G 11 bzw. T 155
1931-32 Kompanieoffizier/Zugführer, Schiffsstammdivision der Ostsee
1933/ 34 ?
1935-36 Gruppenoffizier, Marineschule Mürwik
1937 Gehilfe des Marineattachés bei der deutschen Botschaft in Rom
1938 I.O. eines Zerstörers in der 4. Z-Div
6/1939 - 10.4.1940 I.O. Zerstörer Z 21 "Wilhelm Heidkamp"
10.4.1940 beim Torpedotreffer auf WH in Narvik gefallen

Die Zuordnung zur Crew 1925 in den HMA Crewlisten stimmt nicht.
Eine Beförderung zum KKpt (posthum) ist mir nicht bekannt.

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Platon Alexiades

Hello Alo,

Many thanks for the Opdenhoff letter! It seems as close to an official report as we can get.

Thanks also to Urs for Opendoff brother's career listing. and to Ekki's comments on Mountbatten. It is true that Mountbatten's career seemed to have been plagued by bad luck which could have ended the career of another captain (he was also in command of HMS Javelin when she was torpedoed by German destroyers in November 1940).

To return to the torpedoing of HMS Kelly: the British destroyers were looking for the minelayers Kaiser, Cobra, Roland and Preussen which had been reported in the area. I have not found the report of the minelaying operation which was aborted when B-Dienst intercepted a RAF signal reporting them and they turned back at 2030/9. Do you know if the Schnellboote had been sent in support of the minelayers or were just in the area by chance and were proceeding from Stavanger direct for home?

Best regards,

Platon

Ekki

About Lord Mountbatten, there is no doubt, that he was a brave officer. His nephew, Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh wasn t either. They proved valour in battle


t-geronimo

Hello Platon!

The german e-boats were indeed sent in for support and cover for the minelayers.

Excerpt from war diary minelayer Cobra: 35.jpg

War diary Preussen: 569-jpg

War diary Roland: Mission was aborted after enemy report by 2. Schnellbootflottile (121.jpg)
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Platon Alexiades

Hello Thorsten,

Many thanks for the documents and clearing up this matter! So it appears that the boats of the 2nd Schnellbootflottille that sailed from Stavanger were S 30 S 31, S 32, S 33 and S 34. Richtig?

Best regards,

Platon

Impressum & Datenschutzerklärung