Türken fragen wegen Typ23-Fregatte in Großbritannien an

[Ekki]

Turkey in talks to purchase UK's Type 23 frigates
Ankara is looking to purchase at least three frigates from the UK to replace its ageing fleet

By Ragip Soylu in Ankara
Published date: 19 January 2023 16:10 UTC | Last update: 1 month 1 week ago
3.9k
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Turkey is in talks to purchase at least three second-hand type 23 frigates from the United Kingdom, two sources familiar with the negotiations have told Middle East Eye.

The sources said Turkey is in need of frigates that have air defence capabilities as it will soon retire its G-class frigates that are over 40 years old.

The British Royal Navy is operating 12 Type 23 frigates that were originally designed for anti-submarine warfare during the Cold War against the USSR, beginning in 1987. The ships are equipped with a vertical-launch Seawolf point missile defence system and Boeing Harpoon anti-ship missile.


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The purchase came as a surprise to many as Turkey has been in the process of producing its locally-designed Istanbul-class frigates that are being developed under MILGEM national warship program as an anti-submarine corvette with vertical launch capabilities.

Turkey aims to produce four Istanbul-class frigates and so far has only delivered one, which will join the Turkish Navy this year.

The sources said that Ankara needs to assemble a naval force that consists of multiple frigates to accompany its aircraft carrier and amphibious assault ship TCG Anadolu, which will also be delivered to the Turkish Navy later this year.

"You would have to get one frigate for the front, and the sides, at least three of them are needed for sure," one of the sources said. "We need a quick solution, a gap filler until our national programs catch up with our own ships."

The British type 23's are larger than Turkey's Istanbul-class frigates and they have more range in the open sea.

The sources said the negotiations on the purchase of the ships are still underway and they cannot put a final price tag, but they said the estimated cost for each ship would be around $25-30m.

"Once they are delivered, the upgrades and the modernisation of command and control systems would take at least 18 months to two years," the source added.

A spokesperson for the British defence ministry told MEE that "no decision has yet been taken on the future disposal or sale of Type 23 frigates."


The Royal Navy sold three Type 23 Frigates to Chile in 2005 for £135 million ($ 170m).

Later the Chilean navy awarded a contract to Lockheed Martin in 2017 to modernise the ships with a set of equipment including a combat management system, for a $600m contract, according to Jane's Weekly.

Turkey and the UK have close defence relations due to their Nato partnership, but there is also industrial cooperation as well. UK engine maker Rolls-Royce and its local partner Kale are expected to supply an engine for Ankara's first indigenous fighter jet, the TF-X.

Britain-based BAE Systems is also closely collaborating with Turkish Aerospace Industries in the development of the jet, including its stealth technology.

The United Kingdom completely lifted all of its restrictions on the export of defence products to Turkey last May that were brought in following Ankara's 2019 offensive on northeast Syria.

Middle East Eye delivers independent and unrivalled coverage and analysis of the Middle East, North Africa and beyond. To learn more about republishing this content and the associated fees, please fill out this form. More about MEE can be found here.

Anmerkungen:
- Die Typ23-Fregatten der Royal Navy sind seit einer Modernisierung Anfang der 2000er nicht mehr mit SeaWolf, sondern u.a. mit 32 ESSM in einem VLS ausgestattet.
- Sie sind im Schnitt nur 8 Jahre jünger als die Oliver-Hazard-Perrys (G-Klasse), die sie ersetzen sollen und welche ebenfalls in den 2000ern erheblich modernisiert wurden.
- Gap-Filler deutet darauf hin, dass die TF2000 air defence destroyer der Türken aus Eigenproduktion wohl erst später als geplant zulaufen.
- Größere See-Ausdauer ist im Mittelmeer kein Thema und kein Argument, im roten Meer/Indik müsste sowieso ein Kampfgruppenversorger mit.

[The Voice]

Turkey in talks to purchase UK's Type 23 frigates
Ankara is looking to purchase at least three frigates from the UK to replace its ageing fleet

By Ragip Soylu in Ankara
Published date: 19 January 2023 16:10 UTC | Last update: 1 month 1 week ago
3.9k
Shares


Turkey is in talks to purchase at least three second-hand type 23 frigates from the United Kingdom, two sources familiar with the negotiations have told Middle East Eye.

The sources said Turkey is in need of frigates that have air defence capabilities as it will soon retire its G-class frigates that are over 40 years old.

The British Royal Navy is operating 12 Type 23 frigates that were originally designed for anti-submarine warfare during the Cold War against the USSR, beginning in 1987. The ships are equipped with a vertical-launch Seawolf point missile defence system and Boeing Harpoon anti-ship missile.


What's behind Italy's interest in Turkish drones?

The purchase came as a surprise to many as Turkey has been in the process of producing its locally-designed Istanbul-class frigates that are being developed under MILGEM national warship program as an anti-submarine corvette with vertical launch capabilities.

Turkey aims to produce four Istanbul-class frigates and so far has only delivered one, which will join the Turkish Navy this year.

The sources said that Ankara needs to assemble a naval force that consists of multiple frigates to accompany its aircraft carrier and amphibious assault ship TCG Anadolu, which will also be delivered to the Turkish Navy later this year.

"You would have to get one frigate for the front, and the sides, at least three of them are needed for sure," one of the sources said. "We need a quick solution, a gap filler until our national programs catch up with our own ships."

The British type 23's are larger than Turkey's Istanbul-class frigates and they have more range in the open sea.

The sources said the negotiations on the purchase of the ships are still underway and they cannot put a final price tag, but they said the estimated cost for each ship would be around $25-30m.

"Once they are delivered, the upgrades and the modernisation of command and control systems would take at least 18 months to two years," the source added.

A spokesperson for the British defence ministry told MEE that "no decision has yet been taken on the future disposal or sale of Type 23 frigates."


The Royal Navy sold three Type 23 Frigates to Chile in 2005 for £135 million ($ 170m).

Later the Chilean navy awarded a contract to Lockheed Martin in 2017 to modernise the ships with a set of equipment including a combat management system, for a $600m contract, according to Jane's Weekly.

Turkey and the UK have close defence relations due to their Nato partnership, but there is also industrial cooperation as well. UK engine maker Rolls-Royce and its local partner Kale are expected to supply an engine for Ankara's first indigenous fighter jet, the TF-X.

Britain-based BAE Systems is also closely collaborating with Turkish Aerospace Industries in the development of the jet, including its stealth technology.

The United Kingdom completely lifted all of its restrictions on the export of defence products to Turkey last May that were brought in following Ankara's 2019 offensive on northeast Syria.

Middle East Eye delivers independent and unrivalled coverage and analysis of the Middle East, North Africa and beyond. To learn more about republishing this content and the associated fees, please fill out this form. More about MEE can be found here.

Anmerkungen:
- Die Typ23-Fregatten der Royal Navy sind seit einer Modernisierung Anfang der 2000er nicht mehr mit SeaWolf, sondern u.a. mit 32 ESSM in einem VLS ausgestattet.
- Sie sind im Schnitt nur 8 Jahre jünger als die Oliver-Hazard-Perrys (G-Klasse), die sie ersetzen sollen und welche ebenfalls in den 2000ern erheblich modernisiert wurden.
- Gap-Filler deutet darauf hin, dass die TF2000 air defence destroyer der Türken aus Eigenproduktion wohl erst später als geplant zulaufen.
- Größere See-Ausdauer ist im Mittelmeer kein Thema und kein Argument, im roten Meer/Indik müsste sowieso ein Kampfgruppenversorger mit.

Moin!
Kommentar zum SeaWolf: Nein. die Britische Marine verwendet keine ESSM Flugkörper. Bei der hier beschriebenen Modernisierung wurde der SeaWolf VLS
eingebaut und ist in Nutzung, aber nicht der ESSM!!

Gruß: Uwe

[maxim]

Bei den Typ 23 wurden die Sea Wolf durch Sea Ceptor ersetzt.

Diese Raketen werden auch CAMM genannt und von MBDA produziert:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_(missile_family)

Seither haben die Starter vorne diese seltsamen Hauben:



Auch die alten Feuerleitgeräte und deren Abschirmung wurden entfernt:


https://www.modellmarine.de/index.php/fotogalerien/271-aktive-schiffe/5710-britische-fregatten-hms-westminster-und-hms-kent-in-kiel

ABER: das sind keine Flugabwehrfregatten, sondern U-Jagd-Fregatten.

Warum sollte die Türkei die als Flugabwehrfregatten haben wollen? Ihre alten G-Klasse Fregatten haben SM-1 und ESSM und ihre Modernisierung ist noch nicht so lange her. Gut, diese Schiffe sind  inzwischen sehr alt.

[The Voice]

Moin und:
STIMMT!!
Die Modifikation hatte ich ganz vergessen. Ich bin mal auf der HMS MARLBOROUGH mitgefahren,
das war aber lange vor der hier beschriebenen Umrüstung.
Richtig bleibt hingegen, dass die Royal Navy keine ESSM verwendet.

Gruß: Uwe

[maxim]

Ja, die Typ 23 der britischen Marine haben keine ESSM.

Die türkische Marine hat ESSM hat auf der G-Klasse und den MEKO 200. Die Istanbul-Klasse soll mit HISAR-Flugabwehrraketen ausgerüstet werden. Die Ada-Klasse ist nur mit RAM ausgerüstet.

Das würde auch gegen die Einführung der Typ 23 sprechen, weil es ein weiteres Flugabwehrraketensystem bei der Marine wäre.

[Ekki]

ESSM war gedanklicher Fehler beim Schreiben.

Klar, die haben CAMM (Sea-Ceptor). Sorry