Huszar Pocket Battleships

[Jefgte]

You wrote

"Hy,

On weekend we spoke about the projects and some possible other variants.
Our idea was to build the ships without a common secondary, but only with DP-guns. In the MA-Plan for the DKM we found, that the 5" (127mm) guns the destroyers carried have the same weight, dimensions, etc, as the 4" Flak, but with a heavier shell.

Ok, we use the lafette of the 4" with the 5" guns (absolutely possible).

For your projets: no 6" guns, but about 4 more 5" turrets (and the 3 that where carried) for a total of at least 7 turrets (=14 Guns). A bit less hitting power, but some more speed? Or more armour?

alex"


I am going to test your ideas with SpringSharp


Jef

[Jefgte]

Here is a study with 6T2x105mm - 280mm armour & 26kts speed
This is a Pocket Battleship made for Baltic or North Sea operations with a Battleship Squadron.
A couple of  Pocket Battleship can engage Petropavlosk.
This kind of ship is useful for short operations (Norway, Baltic, North Sea) and heavy escort. This is not an Atlantic Raider.

Huszar-A, germany Pocket Battleship laid down 1931


Displacement:
   11 686 t light; 12 245 t standard; 12 755 t normal; 13 164 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   518.38 ft / 511.81 ft x 75.13 ft x 23.22 ft (normal load)
   158.00 m / 156.00 m x 22.90 m  x 7.08 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1931 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 457 lbs / 2 022 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   318.24 ft / 97.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     91.86 ft / 28.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     101.71 ft / 31.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length
   inclined 12°

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   318.24 ft / 97.00 m   22.31 ft / 6.80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 47 499 shp / 35 434 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 3 200nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 918 tons

Complement:
   599 - 780

Cost:
   £4.695 million / $18.778 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 557 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 4 528 tons, 35.5 %
      - Belts: 1 259 tons, 9.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 414 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 860 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 866 tons, 14.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 130 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1 420 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 160 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 070 tons, 8.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.2 %
   Aircraft installation

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 668 lbs / 8 921 Kg = 29.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.33 ft / 1.32 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forecastle (23 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (55 %):      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (22 %):   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Stern:      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.42 ft / 5.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 620 Square feet or 2 380 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 664 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

 


Here is a study with 7T2x127mm - 270mm armour & 25.2kts speed


Huszar-127, germany Pocket Battleship laid down 1931

Displacement:
   11 651 t light; 12 245 t standard; 12 727 t normal; 13 112 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   518.38 ft / 511.81 ft x 75.13 ft x 23.17 ft (normal load)
   158.00 m / 156.00 m x 22.90 m  x 7.06 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1931 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4 908 lbs / 2 226 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.6" / 270 mm   334.65 ft / 102.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     91.86 ft / 28.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     85.30 ft / 26.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
    inclined 12°

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   334.65 ft / 102.00 m   22.31 ft / 6.80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.6" / 270 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      10.6" / 270 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.82" / 97 mm, Conning tower: 10.63" / 270 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41 870 shp / 31 235 Kw = 25.20 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 867 tons

Complement:
   598 - 778

Cost:
   £4.793 million / $19.173 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 614 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 4 470 tons, 35.1 %
      - Belts: 1 262 tons, 9.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 435 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 838 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 810 tons, 14.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 125 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1 252 tons, 9.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 295 tons, 41.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 076 tons, 8.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.2 %
   Aircraft installation

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 822 lbs / 8 991 Kg = 29.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.33 ft / 1.32 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forecastle (23 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (55 %):      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (22 %):   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Stern:      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.42 ft / 5.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 620 Square feet or 2 380 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 682 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Jef

[Woelfchen]

Hallo Jefgte.
Springsharp have some weak points.
Or should I say mistakes?

The Armour deck covers the complet ship.
Not the space between the gunhouses.
The Amour deck is to heavy.

If you want an Armour deck with 100mm you can use something arround 80mm.

Do you read:
http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/board,109.0.html

Johannes

[Jefgte]

Hi Johannes,


I "imagine" the total thickness of decks

Sup 20mm
Armored 80mm
Total 100mm


Sup 17mm
Armored 80mm
total 97mm


Perhaps wrong, but, that is what I think...



Jef