Schnellboote

[alo41]

Intresting and confusing as always.

The Schnellboote thought that they were fighting a blockship with escort. I guess they would not have put to see if they had known it was a destroyer sweep.
The destroyers thought they were fighting trawlers and barges. I guess they would have been more carful if they had known it was E-boats. They did not see any torpedos.

The destroyers claim:
1.   One large barge certainly sunk (description fits a Schnellboot)
2.   One small barge hit, damaged
3.   One large trawler certainly sunk (damage fits S 55)
4.   One small trawler towing one barge almost certainly sunk

Adm. War diary
1.   One small auxiliary vessel sunk
2.   One E-boat damaged, torpedos fired

Questions
Did the War diary get the E-boat information from radio surveillance? It was not from the destroyers.
Were there any barges or were the destroyers only fighting the Schnellboote?
What does "Captain D16" mean in Smiths text? Codename, typing error, Capt T.E. Halsey on Malcom?

[alo41]

Hi,

There is a large number of photos showing 2 S-Ftl in Ostende. It is now possible to identify the boats and possible dates based once again on HMA information.

1.   Four boats along the quay. The last one camouflaged under tarpaulins.
2.   The first boat loading (unloading?) a torpedo and two Minenschiff in the background
3.   A camouflage (not typical 2 S-Ftl) boat with a Leutnant commander

The Minenschiffe Roland and König Louise were in Ostende 9-21/9 1940

The Schnellboote, based on individual details, are then: (in Ostende)

S 33 loading a torpedo (1/9-25/10)
S 30 with a British helmet on the mast (10/9-26/11)
S 54 Camouflaged (6-15/9) ... to 3 S-Ftl
S 55 Under tarpaulins with the damage from the destroyer guns (10-12/9)

The photos are then taken around the 11 September 1940.

Question:
Does anyone know the Kriegsberichter that took the photos?

/Alo

[alo41]

Schnellboot S 54, 3 SFtl is covered in two articles in the Signal magazine.

1. November 1940
1. Februari 1941

KB Kinulehn, photos Gerhrad Gronedfeld (quite well known by google, documented shooting of hostages in Serbia)

The first article has a seaman on the cover with a strange (chines?) hood under his cap and a beard.
The second article shows more photos. One has Mienenschiff Preussen in Leekhaven, Rotterdam in the background and a totally covered old Schnellboot in front. The photos are all in Dallies-Labourdette's S-Boote book (page 60-62) but Preussen has been cropped out making the identification impossible without the original magazines.

The photos must have been made when S 54 came to Rotterdam with S 1, S 10, S 11 and S 13 on the 23 Sep. 1940 (Rotterdam is not in HMA but comes from Kemnade, Die Afrika Flottille)

Questions
Where does the "chines" hood come from?
Was there a rule about beards?
Is the two last photo showing the same guy as on the Signal cover?

/Alo

[TW]

The hood is not chinese  but called "Südwester" in Germany
In former times it was made from leather, and holds the neck of the seaman free from wind and water. (Firemen had similar hoods to hold the neck free from burning particles. Today firemen wear helmets.)
Best regards, Thomas

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCdwester

Die Benennung nach der Himmelsrichtung, aus der der meiste Regen kommt, kommt möglicherweise ebenso wie der Hut selbst aus dem Norwegischen.

[alo41]

Yes, it is a "Sydväst" in swedish. I was more intrested in the white thing he wears under his Südwester with the chines (or alt Schrift?) caracters on it.
Could it be a "helmet" made from cotton or silk that were used by pilots, skiers and racing drivers in the 1930ies?

https://www.wired.com/2011/01/jan-28-1938-the-passing-of-the-silver-comet-2/

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Ola,

What does "Captain D16" mean in Smiths text?

Captain of Destroyers, Senior Officer (Flottillenchef) 16. Destroyer flotilla

Codename, typing error, Capt T.E. Halsey on Malcom?

it`s https://www.uboat.net/allies/commanders/25.html Commanding officer of HMS Malcolm

Gruß, Urs

[Urs Heßling]

moin

when S 54 came to Rotterdam with S 1, S 10, S 11 and S 13 on the 23 Sep. 1940 (Rotterdam is not in HMA but comes from Kemnade, Die Afrika Flottille)

Danke, wird verbessert,

Gruß, Urs

[Urs Heßling]

mpin, Ola

3.   A camouflage (not typical 2 S-Ftl) boat with a Leutnant commander

S 33 (Lt.z.S. Popp) or S 54 (Lt.z.S. Wagner)

S 33 loading a torpedo (1/9-25/10)
S 30 with a British helmet on the mast (10/9-26/11)
S 54 Camouflaged (6-15/9) ... to 3 S-Ftl
S 55 Under tarpaulins with the damage from the destroyer guns (10-12/9)

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thank you Urs,

All the HMA data makes many previously very difficult tasks possible and also quite fun. The system works very well and it is now easy to follow the individual boats.

One example:
Stranded white typ S 30 boat.  HMA => S 54 (again), Hoek van Holland 19/8 1940

S 54 was then delivered white from Lürssen (9/8 1940) but was camouflaged at the Wilton-Werft in Rotterdam (19-27/8 1940) when they fixed the damage (or when they had to fix the screws in Rotterdam1-2/9 1940 after thire first mission).

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

I need some help with the 2 SFtl mine missions.

The two first photos shows 3 M/08 mines, 1 Riessboje and 2 Sprängboje being loaded on S 37 in Ostende. There is (at least) one more boat in front of S 37 and two behind. The Minenschiffe are not there.

The third photo shows a boat being loaded with 6 M/08 mines. It could be the boat behind S 37 (or a different day)

I think the first M/08 mines and Riessboje were used on 3 Aug 1940 (no Riessboje). There were 5 more Minenunternehmungen (HMA) before S 37 was lost on 12 Oct 1940.

Do anyone know the number of M/08 mines, Riessboje and Sprengboje that were loaded on the Mienenunternehmungen?

There were 12 M/08, 4 EMD, 4 Riessboje and 12 Sprängboje loaded on 6 boats for S 37's last mission. To many boats to match the photos.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Ola,

There were 5 more Minenunternehmungen (HMA) before S 37 was lost on 12 Oct 1940.

not quite
06.08. - 6 M08, 16 SprB
29.09. - terminated due to weather, no data
03.10. - 4 EMD, 15 M08, 5 RB, 12 SprB
12.10. - 4 EMD, 12 M08, 4 RB, 12 SprB

The two first photos shows 3 M/08 mines, 1 Riessboje and 2 Sprängboje being loaded on S 37 in Ostende.

I consider it conclusive by the uneven number of M08 mines and Reissbojen in the mission of 03.10. that this photo was taken before that mission. Two other boats took 6 M08 each, S 37 took the remaining three M08 and one Reissboje.

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Thank you Urs,

Yes I fully agree. The photos shows the mixed load on 3 Oct 1940, S 37 had a full load of 6 M08 on the last mission on 12 Oct.

Do anyone know more about the M/08 mines like when they came to the west? Only used in Ostende? How manny? Last used?

The mines came from Gotenhafen. Where did Poland get them? How old were they?


I also found a Bundesarchive photo showing a (radio?) Kriegsberichter. The same KB can be sean in the Ostende torpedo shop and on S 54. He has been photographed by KB Schneider. I think Schneider was attached to the 2 SFtl in 1940 and that he has taken most of the Ostende photos.

Photos
1. The M/08 mines are taken from Gotenhafen. I think the personel can be sean on the Ostende photos as well. KB Schneider was probebly on the Gotenhafen trip as well.
2. Some M/08 mines in Ostende
3. The radio KB under deck (S 54?)

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,
tolle Bilder Danke fürs Teilen 

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi,

I found one more Ostende M/08 photo. It realy confused me when I looked at the few details shown on the boat. I now think it is a typ S 18 boat (not the normal 2 SFtl typ S 30).

It could then be S 22 that made two Minenunternehmungen from Ostende on 25th and 26th of July. The use of the M/08 must then have started befor 6th Aug. in Ostende.

/Alo

Photo
Typ S 18 boat loading 6 M/08 mines in Ostende

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

It could then be S 22 that made two Minenunternehmungen from Ostende on 25th and 26th of July. The use of the M/08 must then have started befor 6th Aug. in Ostende.

nearly correct.
S 22 did not participate in the mining ops 26/27 July, she left Ostende with the other boats, but then was detached to "go home" to a German shipyard for overhaul.
However, the minings ops 25/26 July was, indeed, the first with "polish mines", and S 22 was one of the "mine carriers". The boats had to take different mine rails to accomodate them.

S 22 nahm an der Minenunternehmung am 26./27.7. nicht teil, sondern wurde nach dem Auslaufen zur Fahrt zur heimatwerft entlassen.
Am 25./26.7. nahm das Boot an einer Minenunternehmung teil, erstmals mit "polnischen Minen", für die auch passende Minenschienen aufgebaut werden mußten.

Gruß, Urs