Schnellboote

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,

Do anyone know the tactical order of the boats on this mission?

Ja
S 27, S 25, S 18, S 20, S 21, S 26

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Great Urs!

S 20 and S 26 was then the last two boats when S 21 turned back.

The attached Böltz photo is then S 21 (Round "Mushroom" type ventilators) photographed from S 26 before she went back to Cherbourg. It looks like they have opened the small hatch for the rudder just behind the life ring to try to fix the steering problem. S 20 can be seen in the background.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

Next Treu photos are from Rotterdam, Mervehaven. They are loading S 20 with a EMD mine and a Reissboje. Begleitschiff Carl Peters is in the background in her late 1940 camouflage. I think it is the 21 Oct 1940 or is there another possible date? The other boats are then S 22, S 24, S 27 and S 28.

Is the "RI" marking on photo23 a ship name?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,


I think it is the 21 Oct 1940 

or is there another possible date?  Nein

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Good,

More Treu photos:

The 1 SFtl (S 20, S 22, S 24, S 27, S 28) left Rotterdam with Carl Peters on 26 Oct. 1940 and went to Den Helder. I think Carl Peters continued to Wilhelmshaven.

The photos shows S 20 and another boat following Carl Peters in day light. It could be a later date when S 20 was in Denmark with Car Peters. At what time did they got to Den Helder?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,

The 1 SFtl (S 20, S 22, S 24, S 27, S 28) left Rotterdam with Carl Peters on 26 Oct. 1940 and went to Den Helder. 

S 22 hatte Maschinenprobleme, folgte und lief zusammen mit der 1. S-Fltl, die wegen Wetterlage bei Texel umkehrte, in Den Helder ein

I think Carl Peters continued to Wilhelmshaven.

Ja (an 28.10.), dann weiter nach Kiel und durch Kattegat und Skagerrak nach Kristiansand S

At what time did they got to Den Helder?

17:30

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thank you Urs, excellent as always

The S 20/Carl Peters photos can then very well be from daytime the 26 Oct.

It looks to me that the original plan was for 1. SFtl and Carl Peters to meet with Scheer in Skagerrak. The bad weather then forced 1. SFtl into Den Helder and Carl Peters had to go to Norway through the KW Kanal  because of the lost escort or the lost time?

The 1. SFtl left Den Helder on the 27 Oct. 1940 to meet with Scheer. Admiral Scheer had left Brunsbüttel at 11:00 on the same day and arrived in Stavanger at 9:30 on the 28 Oct. Did the 1. SFtl escort Scheer during this trip? Where did they, if so, first meet?
The 1. SFtl did not stay with Scheer in Stavanger on 28 Oct, instead they continued to Bergen.

(I did not fully understand if Carl Peters continued to Wilhelmshaven on the 26 Oct or if she joined 1.SFtl in Den Helder?)

There is one Treu S 20 photo from Bergen.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

It looks to me that the original plan was for 1. SFtl and Carl Peters to meet with Scheer in Skagerrak. 

Nein.
Gruppe Nord, der die 1. S-Fltl unterstellt worden war, befahl
- ein Verlegen der 1. S-Fltl nach Wilhelmshaven
- von WHV einen Marsch der Boote durch die Nordsee zum Treffen mit Scheer
- von WHV ein Verlegen von CP in die Ostsee und weiteres Verlegen nach Norwegen, sobald die S-Boote dort eintreffen

The 1. SFtl left Den Helder on the 27 Oct. 1940 to meet with Scheer. Admiral Scheer had left Brunsbüttel at 11:00 on the same day and arrived in Stavanger at 9:30 on the 28 Oct. Did the 1. SFtl escort Scheer during this trip? Where did they, if so, first meet?

- Keine Sicherung durch S-Boote, sondern durch T-Boote; S-Boote im Kielwasser Scheer
- Treffen in der Nähe von Punkt H (?), 18:39
- CP war zuvor um 18:23 aus dem Verband 1. S-Fltl entlassen worden

The 1. SFtl did not stay with Scheer in Stavanger on 28 Oct, instead they continued to Bergen.

1. S-Fltl lief nie in Stavanger ein, sondern marschierte nach dem Treffen mit Scheer weiter nach Bergen

I did not fully understand if Carl Peters continued to Wilhelmshaven on the 26 Oct or if she joined 1.SFtl in Den Helder?

CP lief mit den Booten am 26.10. in Den Helder ein und am 27.10. um 11.45 wieder aus

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

OK, Urs

Now I think I got it.

26 Oct    1.SFtl with Carl Peters leaves Rotterdam to go to Wilhelmshaven. Bad weather forces them to stop in Den Helder
27 "        1.SFtl and Carl Peters leaves Den Helder to meet Admiral Scheer at Punkt H. 1 SFtl goes with Scheer towards Stavanger, Carl Peters and S 22 goes towards Wilhelmshaven.
28 "       Scheer goes into Stavanger, 1 SFtl goes into Bergen, Carl Peters goes into Wilhelmshaven
31 "       Carl Peters is in Kristiansand Syd

There is a photo of S 20 (in Norway?) followed by a type S 38 boat with camouflaged torpedo tube hatches. Is it possible to say if it is S 27 or S 28 based on the tactical order?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Alo,

26 Oct    1.SFtl with Carl Peters leaves Rotterdam to go to Wilhelmshaven. Bad weather forces them to stop in Den Helder
27 "        1.SFtl and Carl Peters leaves Den Helder to meet Admiral Scheer at Punkt H. 1 SFtl goes with Scheer towards Stavanger, Carl Peters and S 22 goes towards Wilhelmshaven.
28 "       Scheer goes into Stavanger, 1 SFtl goes into Bergen, Carl Peters goes into Wilhelmshaven

Alles Ja   CP kam schon am 27.10. auf Schillig Reede an, lief am 28.10. kurz in WHV ein und marschierte noch am 28.10. durch den West-Teil des KW-Kanals

31 (Oct)       Carl Peters is in Kristiansand Syd

Nein.  CP lief am 31.10. aus Kiel aus, aber der Marsch nach Norwegen wurde abgebrochen und CP ankerte am 2.11. abends vor Frederikshavn. Dort blieb das Schiff bis zum 15.11. und marschierte dann mit S 20 und S 28 zurück nach Kiel (siehe HMA, da fehlt die Erwähnung von CP)

There is a photo of S 20 (in Norway?) followed by a type S 38 boat with camouflaged torpedo tube hatches. Is it possible to say if it is S 27 or S 28 based on the tactical order?

Ja oder mindestens "sehr wahrscheinlich" ... die Reihenfolge beim Verlegen von Bergen über Stavanger und Kristiansand nach Frederikshavn war immer S 27, S 20, S 28, S 24 ... also wohl S 28 und möglicherweise dahinter (verdeckt) S 24

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thanks again Urs,

We will come back to Carl Peters in Fredrikshavn but first we will see S 20, S 24, S 27 and S 28 in Stavanger (2-4 Nov. 1940?).

We have a typ S 18 boat with a Wappen (Tiger?). It looks very much the same style as Fimmen's Jaguar on S 26. The boat is not S 20 so it must be Töniges S 24.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

S 20, S 24, S 27 and S 28 in Stavanger (2-4 Nov. 1940?).

Ja, ohne Fragezeichen

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thanks,

I wonder if it is the newly washed Schnellboot crews in white standing on the Torpedoboot (photo S 24 Tiger).

Next Treu photos are probably from Fredrikshavn with S 20, Carl Peters and probably S 28 (note some camouflage on the side plate). Photos are then taken sometime between 5-15 Nov 1940.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,

I wonder if it is the newly washed Schnellboot crews in white standing on the Torpedoboot

Das glaube ich nicht
- Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob die Bootesbesatzungen im Einsatz ihr "Weißzeug" überhaupt dabei hatten
- Dort stehen mehr Männer als zu einer S-Boots-Besatzung gehören
- Auf der Back des zwischen dem Torpedoboot und S 24 liegenden Schnellboots (S 28 ?) stehen zwei Männer. Es fand also keine Musterung für die S-Boots-Besatzungen statt.

Noch einmal meinen herzlichen Dank für das Einstellen der Bilder

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi,

More Treu photos. They show S 20 with Mirbach's kill pennants on the way back to Kiel with Carl Peters on 15 Nov 1940.

We discussed the pennants in this thread on page 22-23, answer 328..... My conclusion was then:

S 20 4/7       Elmcrest      7000    (4343)         Wehrmachtbericht: British Corporal (6900 BRT)
  "      "            ?              6000    (-)               Wehrmachtbericht: Hartelpool (5500 BRT)
  "    26/7     Broadhurst   7000    (1013) 
  "      "            ?              2000    (-)
  "    8/8       Ouse            5000    (1004)   



/Alo