Schnellboote

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,

We discussed the pennants in this thread on page 22-23, answer 328..... My conclusion was then:

S 20 4/7       Elmcrest      7000    (4343)         Wehrmachtbericht: British Corporal (6900 BRT)
  "      "            ?              6000    (-)               Wehrmachtbericht: Hartelpool (5500 BRT)
  "    26/7     Broadhurst   7000    (1013) 
  "      "            ?              2000    (-)
  "    8/8       Ouse            5000    (1004)   

Ja

und ich habe heute auch keine bessere Antwort als damals meine # 329 

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi,

The last Treu S 20 photo is from Kiel Wik with the pennants (16 Nov. 1940). v. Mirbach and crew handed S 20 over to 4. SFtl and picked up the new S 29 instead.

There is a photo of S 24 and S 27 in Kiel as well (6 Nov. - 1 Dec. 1940). We have discussed this photo before but I cant find where. Anyone?

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

I found some more S 20 Mirbach photos in another album sold on ebay. The album is a total mess and is probably a copy made by the seller.

Three photos are from Paris and are probably from the S 20 crew, 12 Aug 1940. (info in HMA)

1. Versailles. Obltn. v. Mirbach with S 20 crew, a Ltn. (who could it be?) and a (French?) guide. This trip was made two days before Mirbach got the RK. Did they know in advance?

2. A photo of Champs Elysees. At first I thought it was taken from thier hotell and that there were many civilian cars for Aug. 1940. It turns out that the photo is actually made from a postcard. (by the ebay album seller or in 1940?).

3. Sacre Coeur. The trees are bigger now.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,

Three photos are from Paris and are probably from the S 20 crew, 12 Aug 1940. (info in HMA)
1. Versailles. Obltn. v. Mirbach with S 20 crew, a Ltn. (who could it be?) and a (French?) guide.

a Ltn. (who could it be?) - vermutlich vom Marinegruppenkommando West
a (French?) guide. JA

This trip was made two days before Mirbach got the RK. Did they know in advance?

Es war neun Tage vor der Bekanntgabe und die Antwort lautet nein. Siehe KTB

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thanks Urs,

Both Fimmen (#26) and Mirbach (#27) received the RK on 14 Aug 1940. I don't understand why the announcement came first after one week and then on the radio news and not through a official channel. Was this normal or has it something to do that they issued two RK at the same time?

Going back to the 1. SFtl trip to Boulogne on 24 Aug 1940. There is one "Treu" photo showing this and there are two in the photo album (the Treu photo is actually an enlargement from one of the album photos)

I had problems finding the location of the #1 photo. That part of Boulogne is totally rebuilt with ware houses. I have shown the location on an IWM air photo.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

The next part of the "Treu" photos is from S 29.
v. Mirbach handed in S 20 in Nov. 1940 and received the new S 29 at the Lürssen wharf. He went from Vegesack to Kiel through the KW Kanal on 30 Nov 1940.

The first photo probably shows S 29 at the Hochdonnbrücke. It looks to me like he is trawling north to Kiel (sun in SW?). At what time could S 29 have passed there? Were they alone?

Note that S 29 at this time had a very high "Winkerstand" (It will be shortened later). The position of the search light is also an indication of an early typ S 38 boat.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,

At what time could S 29 have passed there? 

Das geht aus dem KTB nicht hervor, Eintrag am 30.11. "auf dem Marsch nach Kiel"

Were they alone?

nach KTB : ja

Note that S 29 at this time had a very high "Winkerstand" (It will be shortened later). The position of the search light is also an indication of an early typ S 38 boat

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thank you Urs,

The S 29 transfer through the KW Kanal was then probably done in daylight. I think you have said it takes 5-6 h to go through the Kanal?

The next S 29 photos are from Ijmuiden, Visschershaven. S 29 was stationed there from 19 Jan. - 6 April 1941. We can clearly see the early tall "Winkerstand" and that all horizontal deck surfaces, and ventilators were painted black or dark grey. We can also see v. Mirbachs black panther Wappen.

I am not sure if the last photo ("40") is from Ijmuiden. The back ground looks like it and the ventilator is not white. Still not sure...

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

I think you have said it takes 5-6 h to go through the Kanal?

Etwas mehr.
Bei 96,4 km Länge und einer erlaubten Geschwindigkeit von 15 km/h (Angabe nicht in Knoten) braucht man 6⁺ Stunden, Dazu sind die Schleusenzeiten (2 x 30⁺ Minuten) zu rechnen. Eine Gesamtfahrzeit von 7,5 Stunden ist schon gut, einkalkulieren sollte man (mit "Zeitreserve") 8 Stunden

The next S 29 photos are from Ijmuiden, Visschershaven.

Danke

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

OK, a full days work to get through the Kanal, thanks.

We are now back to page 1-3 of this thread with Joern's S 29 photos. The HMA has given us some new knowledge.

The lock photos shows S 26, S 27, S 29, S 40, S 102 and S 103 in the Midden Sluis, Ijmuiden. They are going west to the sea with TMB mines. The date from HMA is 21 April 1941. It looks like the officers are discussing what to do next. They will soon abort the mission due to fog.

The "Treu" photos shows the boats going back to Amsterdam through the Ijmuiden locks, still with the TMB mines. S 29 has been repainted (21-22 March Kontrollarbeit?) with an all white deck, moved Nebelkannen, mine rails and probably a shortened "Winkerstand".

I think the tactical row could have been S 27, S 102, S 29, S 40, S 103 and S 26.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin

It looks like the officers are discussing what to do next.

Eigene Erfahrung : sie gehen zum Treffen mit dem Flottillenchef vor dem Auslaufen

I think the tactical row could have been S 27, S 102, S 29, S 40, S 103 and S 26.

richtig wäre "tactical sequence".
Reihenfolge war S 103, S 29, S 40, S 102, S 27, S 26
S 103 fährt vorn, weil der Flottillenchef beim jüngsten und unerfahrensten Kommandanten "einsteigt"

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thanks Urs,

After some more detail checking (and the tactical sequence info) I see that I have mixed up S 102 and S 103. It is then not S 102 Töniges on the Sluis 2 photo.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

After some more detail checking (and the tactical sequence info) I see that I have mixed up S 102 and S 103. It is then not S 102 Töniges on the Sluis 2 photo.

Ich finde es toll, wie Du die Boote unterscheiden kannst

Wenn das Boot im Bild Sluis 2 nun S 103 - also das Führerboot - ist, läßt sich spekulieren
- der PUO mit der Schwimmweste (rechts neben der Schrift "S 102") ist der Flottillensteuermann, der sich mit den Navigationsmatrosen der anderen Boote unterhält
- an Backbordseite des Bootes steht ein Meister vom Flottillenstab, der sich mit zwei Leitenden Maschinisten von Booten unterhält

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi Urs,

I like speculations.
I think the life west man is an officer, a Leutnant. It could then be Ltn. Kunzel on S 103. It could be that he was left in charge of the boats in the lock while the rest of the commanders had a talk, or it could be that the two photos are not taken at the exact same time and that he is preparing to join the rest of the commanders.

The early Schlichting boats (S 101-S 103 (S 104?)) were all built with the "Winkerstand" on the starboard side. They were later rebuilt to the standard port side. I managed to find a difference between S 102 and S 103. The support rod for the wire aerial (not the rod aerial) is attached in line with the support for the Winkerstand on S 102. On S 103  the aerial rod is placed below.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

I think the life west man is an officer, a Leutnant. It could then be Ltn. Kunzel on S 103. It could be that he was left in charge of the boats in the lock while the rest of the commanders had a talk, or it could be that the two photos are not taken at the exact same time and that he is preparing to join the rest of the commanders.

Stimmt. Ich habe den Ärmelstreifen übersehen ... und zu Künzel: ja, gut möglich

Gruß, Urs