Hallo Freunde,
die schöne Site ist wohl bekannt, die letzten Updates sind aber spannend:
http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/index.html
und dann auf "
War diaries":
ZitatThese War Diaries are translated from the digitized copies in National archives digital archive .
Coastal Fleet Headquarters
SPK 2847, September 1939.
SPK 2847, October 1939.
SPK 2847, November 1939.
SPK 2847, December 1939.
General Headquarters, Intelligence Department
SPK 3444, November-December 1939.
Was gibt es da so an Beständen in dem Archiv?
:MG:
Darius
Zitat von: Darius am 13 Januar 2010, 22:03:35
Hallo Freunde,
die schöne Site ist wohl bekannt, die letzten Updates sind aber spannend:
:MG:
Darius
Nein, war nicht bekannt, danke Dir..... top
Gruß, :MG:
Manfred
Hallo zusammen,
über den Beitrag von Micha (http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=11507.msg128484#msg128484) bin ich wieder auf diesen Beitrag gestoßen bzw. wollte mal hier was nachfragen.
U.a. wird in einem der Axis-Beiträge auf dieses KTB der finn. 2. S-Flottille verwiesen:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3743337&zoom=3&x=1&y=1&sx=400&sy=400
Homepage ist die http://digi.narc.fi/digi/index.ka?lang=en_US.
Kann evtl. hier jemand von den finnischsprachigen Kollegen etwas mehr zu dem Archiv bzw. für uns interessanten KTBs schreiben und paar Links einfügen?
Danke
Darius
Kleiner Umweg über ein anderes Forum:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=154664
:MG:
Darius
Zitat von: Darius am 17 Februar 2010, 12:08:08
Hallo zusammen,
über den Beitrag von Micha (http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=11507.msg128484#msg128484) bin ich wieder auf diesen Beitrag gestoßen bzw. wollte mal hier was nachfragen.
U.a. wird in einem der Axis-Beiträge auf dieses KTB der finn. 2. S-Flottille verwiesen:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3743337&zoom=3&x=1&y=1&sx=400&sy=400
Homepage ist die http://digi.narc.fi/digi/index.ka?lang=en_US.
Kann evtl. hier jemand von den finnischsprachigen Kollegen etwas mehr zu dem Archiv bzw. für uns interessanten KTBs schreiben und paar Links einfügen?
Danke
Darius
Hallo Darius,
wenn es anders nicht geht dann setz Dich bitte mit Klaus F. in Verbindung, denn der kennt eine Finnin in seiner Umgebung und die erwies uns schon sehr gute Dienste, natürlich nicht umsonst.
Gruß
Micha
Hallo Micha,
stimmt, jetzt kann ich mich an Deine Ausführungen zu dem Überstzungstheme erinnern.
:MG:
Darius
Hallo zusammen,
ich wollte Euch hier mal über die aktuellen Erweiterungen von http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/index.html informieren:
16. May 2010
Three Winter War war diaries completed:
SPK 2274, Laatokka Naval Detachment
SPK 2847, Coastal Fleet Headquarters
SPK 3444, General Headquarters, Intelligence Department
28. May 2010
Submarine Flotilla war diary 4.5.1942-15.1.1943 SPK 23430 completed.
Listing of submarine patrols in 1942 updated.
Gerade die Punkte vom 28.05.2010 dürften die ASA/ASS-Kollegen interessieren.
:MG:
Darius
Hallo zusammen,
und wieder ein Update:
a) Sukellusvenelaivue 5.4.1943-25.1.1944
Submarine Flotilla 5.4.1942-25.1.1944
Neu ist die Akte , SPK 23431, April 1943 - January 1944, ausgewertet worden:
http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Background/Wartime/SPK/23431-1943.htm
b) Submarine Patrols, nun auch um die Akte SPK23431 erweitert:
http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Submarines/subpatrols.htm
:MG:
Darius
Hallo zusammen,
es hat sich wieder was auf dieser Site getan. Freut mich:
15. July 2011
New page about operation "Kilpapurjehdus", occupation of Ahvenanmaa 21-22.6.1941:
--/>/> http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Background/Wartime/Kilpapurjehdus.htm
11. July 2011
Mine warfare page updated for the year 1941:
--/>/> http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Mines/mines.htm
New page about operation "Häämatka" in August 1941:
--/>/> http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Background/Wartime/Honeymoon.htm
Details from War Diaries and corrections & updates here and there:
da müsst ihr suchen :-)
20. May 2011
Submarine Flotilla war diary 4.4.1944-4.12.1944 SPK 23432 completed:
--/>/> http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Background/Wartime/SPK/index.htm
Summary of submarine activity in 1944 updated:
--/>/> http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Submarines/subpatrols.htm
:MG:
Darius
Dear Forum members
I stumbled on this thread regarding my website and therefore I have just joined the Forum. I hope that I can assist in questions related to Finnish Navy and sea war in Baltic. For your information, I have updated submarine operations in 1941, but it is still not complete. The war diaries of the Submarine Flotilla and submarines for 1941 were destroyed so that the Allied Control Commission would not get them. The primary sources are missing and sometimes difficult to find. There are higher organizational level war diaries available, but they have little details and the dates and times are often the date a message was sent or received, not when something really happened. I copied all available battle reports or patrol reports from Naval Forces headquarters, operational office No. 2 binders in National archive and used these to construct our submarines activity in 1941. However, this is still not complete.
Direct links to latest updates 25.7.2011, submarine operations 1941 (http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Submarines/submarines-cont.htm) and submarine patrols summary (http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Submarines/subpatrols.htm#1941).
Best Regards
Jari Aromaa
Hello Jari,
you are welcome.
Thank you for your effort on this part of the naval history top
:MG:
Darius
Welcome JARI!
It´s great to have you onboard now!
Hello Jari!
I want to write you a letter, but my post service doesn't like your e-mail address (jari.aromaa (at) ylaoksa.fi,), which I found at
http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/index.html
May be you have another mail-box?
Regards
Private mail to Miroslav sent.
Jari
Dear Jari - welcome to the forum :O/Y
I have one question regarding war diaries of Finnish ships from September 1939 - are you planing to translate them? (I'm especially interested in ILMARINEN or VAINAMOINEN and gunboats since there is a chance that Polish ORZEŁ encountered Finnish ships during her escape from Tallinn).
All the best,
Andrzej
Zitat von: crolick am 31 Juli 2011, 18:46:54
Dear Jari - welcome to the forum :O/Y
I have one question regarding war diaries of Finnish ships from September 1939 - are you planing to translate them? (I'm especially interested in ILMARINEN or VAINAMOINEN and gunboats since there is a chance that Polish ORZEŁ encountered Finnish ships during her escape from Tallinn).
All the best,
Andrzej
Hello, Andrzej
I have translated the Coastal Fleet diary SPK 2847 on my website. The September month is here (http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navygallery/Background/Wartime/SPK/2847-1939-09.htm). On the dates before Orzel arrived in Tallinn there is nothing about unknown submarine in the western part of Gulf of Finland, only around the outer islands that are east from Tallinn. On 18.9. morning there is general information delivered that Polish submarine has departed from Tallinn and on 19.9 at 12.30 Coastal Fleet received a phone message from Naval Forces Headquarters about areas where Polish submarines may move and orders were given how to deal with them (no details in the diary). In the afternoon 19.9. unknown submarine is seen in Kokskär-Eestiluoto line, first moving west and then east. I have not located Kokskär but Eestiluoto is 60
o07'N, 25
o13'E. At 16.25 Utö fort sees unknown submarine in bearing 168
o. Could this have been Orzel? Did it travel on surface?
Ilmarinen has no digitized war diary before 30.11.1939. Väinämöinen has diaries SPK 2488-2490 for September. Based on these diaries the coastal defence ships were in anchor in Turku or Ahvenanmaa area the days Orzel was in Gulf of Finland or Tallinn. Again, there are no notices on dates before Orzel arrives in Tallinn. In SPK 2489 there is same general message that a Polish submarine has departed from Tallinn at 03.03 hours. There is also sighting of an unknown submarine 14.25 NE Helsinki light moving west (maybe the same as first one above).
Usually only gunboats or VMV patrol boats did patrols outside the archipelago. In the gunboats diaries Hämeenmaa has no notices about submarines in September, Karjala was operating too far in the east, Turunmaa has nothing about submarines, and Uusimaa has nothing before Orzel's arrival in Tallin and only the general signal of its departure 18.9. I will try to get more details about the movements of gunboats 18.9. and after. For example Uusimaa was in Turku 18-19.9. for resupply.
Regards,
Jari
Dear Jari,
thank you for your reply :)
I'm asking about this because in Polish sources it is claimed that after the escape submarine was laying on the bottom (I don't know where) for the whole day and during the sunset around 20.00/18 IX ORZEŁ surfaced at the entry to the Gulf of Finland where 2 or 3 ships were seen in distance of around 300 m. They were recognized as ILMARINEN class + escort ships.
Please keep in mind that all the data for ORZEŁ due to lack of documents might be not correct (so 19 IX is also possible as well that ORZEŁ was travelling on surface though this is rather less probable).
It is also possible that the submarine sighted by Finnish Navy was a Soviet sub (maybe there were some in the vicinity?).
I presume that Kokskär is Estonian isle of Keri.
All the best,
Andrzej
Hello, Andrzej
You are right about the Koksär, it is Keri.
In the Diary of Väinämöinen SPK 2489 (14.9-21.9.1939) it is stated that the ship moved in the morning 18.9. from a pier (position not given) to Kuuvannokka (south end of Ruissalo island) then to Vähä-Teivi and anchored at 19.20 east from Mailuoto. I have not found this place in maps, but there are Maisaari and Vähä-Maisaari east from Airisto 60o19'N, 21o52'E. In Finnish "luoto" is a small island (="saari"). In SPK 2489 at 20.55. two ships and 22.45 one ship were seen in bearing 340o going south. There is a lane west from the Maisaari islands. The names of these three ships were not found out, maybe due to darkness.
For 19.9. the Diary SPK 2489 notes that:
07.55 a small passenger ship was seen in south
08.10 Gunboat Turunmaa arrived to anchor place
08.25 3 VMV boats, tug Katajaluoto with coal and water barges arrived
08.40 Sweeper Rautu and 2 A-boats arrived
09.00 Sweeper Vilppula with 3 A-boats arrived
12.45 sweeper Rautu tied up alongside Ilmarinen.
As there is no notes about departure or arrival of Ilmarinen I assume that it has also been anchored in Mailuoto/Maisaari the night 18/19.9. The A-boats conducted sweeping exercises during the day 19.9. Rautu moved to anchor and Vilppula tied up alongside Ilmarinen 16.30-16.45. Gunboat Uusimaa arrived 21.05.
Gunboat Turunmaa departed from the anchor place 20.9. at 00.44. Gunboat Uusimaa departed 11.25 to patrol in Hanko direction. An A-boat tied up alongside Ilmarinen at 19.15. The same goes on for 21.9, no mentions about Väinämöinen, vessels tying up alongside and departing from Ilmarinen. As there are no notes about departure or arrival of the coast defence ships I assume that they remained at anchor 18-21.9 deep inside the archipelago.
In my opinion Orzel did not saw a Finnish coast defence ship. The Finnish gunboat patrols were made by a single vessel. If several gunboats were out at same time, they were in different places. If Orzel saw 2-3 warships they might have been Swedish ones.
Best Regards,
Jari
Zitat von: jja60 am 04 August 2011, 20:43:38
Gunboat Turunmaa departed from the anchor place 20.9. at 00.44.
Hier mal ein Bild der Turunmaa
Finnisches Kanonenboot Turunmaa.
http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Morozov/Morozov_MTA_I-134-3.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_gunboat_Turunmaa
:MG:
Manfred
G'moie
Wenn man auf sa-kuva.fi nach Turunmaa sucht findet man 22 Bilder der Turunmaa.
Gruss Chattius