Um den 11./12.12.1936 befanden sich in Tanger außer dem britischen Schlachtkreuzer HOOD und dem deutschen Leichten Kreuzer KÖNIGSBERG auch zwei italiensiche Kreuzer.
Kann mir jemand sagen, welche Kreuzer das genau waren?
"Quarto" war als Stationsschiff zu diesem Zeitpunkt wohl in Tanger. Müssen es Kreuzer sein, oder wären auch Esploratori möglich?
"Il QUARTO rientrò in Italia il 16 ottobre (1936). Il 9 novembre la nave si trasferì a Tangeri come unità stazionaria,..."
moin,
Zitat von: Peter K. am 28 Februar 2011, 07:35:34
Um den 11./12.12.1936 befanden sich in Tanger außer dem britischen Schlachtkreuzer HOOD und dem deutschen Leichten Kreuzer KÖNIGSBERG auch zwei italiensiche Kreuzer. Kann mir jemand sagen, welche Kreuzer das genau waren?
ohne Fotto .. is sich schlächt.
aber ich fand ein schönes aus derselben Zeit .. was für ein Vorschiff ...
Hood (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36758831@N04/3791834092/)
Gruß, Urs
Nu sollt's funzen! SPEE
Moin Urs,
die Seite funzt nicht :cry:
Grüße Ronny
moi, Thomas,
sei bedankt :MG:
Gruß, Urs
QUARTO ist ein guter Tipp ... aus welcher Quelle hast du das, SPEE?
In meinem alten "Gli Incrociatori Italiani" steht nur "von 1936 bis Mai 1938" ...
In meiner Notiz steht leider nur "zwei italienische Kreuzer", aber es könnte sich tatsächlich durchaus auch um Esploratori gehandelt haben ... mir kam auch schon dieser Minenleger in den Sinn, hab´ aber jetzt den Namen vergessen ...
Jedenfalls DANKE für den bisherigen Input, vielleicht knacken wir die Sache ja noch ...
@Peter,
Quelle ist ESPLORATORI ITALIANI von Franco Bargoni.
Die Navigatoris waren auch oft in Tanger, ADRIATICO und BARLETTA kämen als Hilfskreuzer vielleicht in Frage.
... genau der Band, der mir fehlt! :| DANKE!
@Peter,
30 Euro in La Spezia oder Venezia.
... da komm´ ich leider so selten mal vorbei und bei der "Uboot-Tour" war ich ja nicht dabei!
Hab´ mir das Ding aber trotzdem grad mal bestellt .... :roll:
Sehr gute Geldanlage :TU:) !
,,The early service of CADORNA included patrols during the Spanish civil war(...)"
"ARMANDO DIAZ (...) served in the western Mediterranean during Spanish civil war, based at Palma and Melilla."
"DA BARBIANO served in the Mediterranean until Second world war, having participated int RItN´s activities during the Spanish civil war between 1936 and 1937."
"DI GIUSSANO participated in the normal peacetime activities of the fleet in the 1930s as a unit of the 2nd Squadron, including service in connection with the Spanish civil war."
"BANDE NERE saw service in the western Mediterranean during the Spanish civil war (...)".
"SAVOIA (...)had seen service in Spanish waters in 1936/37 as part of Italy´s intervention in the civil war."
"FIUME, GORIZIA and POLA participated in the Italian Navy´s activities in Spanish waters 1936/37 (...)."
Soweit Whitley: Cruisers of WW 2. Aber den hast Du ja auch, Peter. Muss also kein Esploratore gewesen sein, das zweite Schiff...
Danke EKKE, aber WHITLEY´s Angeben sind mir natürlich bekannt, denn sie stammen offenbar direkt aus "Gli Incrociatori Italiani".
Diese ungenauen Angaben helfen mir aber leider nicht weiter, denn ich hätte gerne genau gewußte, welche Italiener zum fraglichen Zeitpunkt nun in Tanger waren!
Ich hoffe noch immer auf unsere italienischen Freunde ...
Hab im "Almanacco storico" nachgeschaut, da war nix. Italienisches Wikipedia ist auch wenig ergiebig...
Tja, ich such´ mir auch schon die Finger wund .... :| ... trotzdem DANKE, EKKE! top
Buona Sera Pietro,
io no sono amico italiano, io sono amico tedesco :-D !
Aber hier gibts ein paar interessante Details -> http://www.pietrocristini.com/storia_nave.htm
In particolare il Di Giussano effettuò le seguenti missioni:
- 12 agosto – 7 settembre 1936 – a Barcellona per protezione di connazionali;
- 12-17 gennaio 1937 – scorta piroscafo a Cadice;
- 23-31 gennaio 1937 – crociera pendolare;
- 19-22 febbraio 1937 – scorta piroscafo a Tangeri.
Il Da Barbiano:
- 3 ottobre – 19 novembre 1936 – a Tangeri;
- 22-30 dicembre 1936 – scorta piroscafo a Palma di Maiorca;
- 2-7 gennaio 1937 – scorta piroscafo a Cadice;
- 16-20 gennaio 1937 – scorta piroscafo a Cadice;
- 28-30 gennaio 1937 – crociera pendolare;
- 22-27 marzo 1937 – scorta piroscafo;
- 1-6 aprile 1937 – scorta piroscafo.
Il Colleoni:
- 5 settembre – 3 ottobre 1936 – a Barcellona per protezione di connazionali;
- 3 gennaio 1937 – scorta piroscafo e crociera pendolare;
- 28 gennaio – 5 febbraio 1937 – crociera pendolare;
- 18-24 febbraio 1937 – crociera pendolare;
- 16-21 aprile 1937 – scorta piroscafo;
- 29 aprile – 1° maggio 1937 – scorta piroscafo;
- 3-6 maggio 1937 – scorta piroscafo.
Il Bande Nere:
- 11-14 agosto 1936 – scorta piroscafo e permanenza a Tangeri fino al 3 ottobre;
- 23-31 gennaio 1937 – crociera pendolare;
- 18-24 febbraio 1937 – crociera pendolare;
- 11-12 novembre 1937 – pattugliamento.
L'Attendolo nel luglio 1936 trasportò profughi da Malaga e Barcellona a La Spezia, eseguendo poi diverse crociere di scorta indiretta a convogli del corpo di spedizione nazionale; il Montecuccoli partecipò ad una sola crociera di protezione nel febbraio 1937.
Natürlich nehme ich gerne Hilfe aus aller Herren Länder an ... :-D
... aber auch diese Daten kenne ich leider schon und bringen mich mit dem 11./12.12.1936 in Tanger nicht weiter ... :cry:
Doch, sie helfen. Alle 6 Schiffe scheiden mit ziemlicher Sicherheit aus.
Richtig, insofern hilft´s .... :wink: top
From Franco Bargoni, "L'impegno navale italiano durante la guerra civile spagnola (1936-1939)", USMM, 1992:
In early Nov.1936 there were in Tangers more anti-Italian demonstrations and scuffles between anti-Fascist demonstrators, supported by French sailors, and crewmen of the DA BARBIANO (which had relieved the BANDE NERE on 3 October and flew the flag of Amm. di Div. Silvio Salza). (..)The Joint Naval Defence Committee continued to meet, as it had in October, sometimes on board DA BARBIANO and sometimes on board HMS DESPATCH.(...) A Memo was signed by the COs of DESPATCH, ALBERICO DA BARBIANO, French C.T. VAUBAN and Portuguese destroyer LIMA.
On 18 Nov. 1936 the Esploratore QUARTO, coming from La Spezia via Barcelona and Palma de Mallorca, relieved the DA BARBIANO, which sailed the next day to return home. The Regia Marina, immediately after the formal German and Italian recognition of the Burgos Nationalist government (18 Nov.), formed the "Gruppo Navale Italiano nei porti prossimi allo Stretto" (of Gibraltar, obviously) under Rear-Adm. Alberto Marenco di Moriondo, flagship QUARTO based in Tangers, with the two Esploratori DA MOSTO and DA VERRAZZANO, which at the end of November were relieved by the older destroyer AQUILA and torpedo-boat AUDACE.
No more disturbances took place, with the exception of 25 Dec., when there were scuffles between crewmen of the QUARTO and local citizens...
On 10 December, 1936 at Ceuta, there was a first meeting beween Rear-Adm. Hermann Boehm, F.d.Aufklaerungs of the Kriegsmarine, the Spanish Admiral Cervera, CoS of the Nationalist Navy, and Cap. Vasc. Ferretti acting for the Italian Admiral, on board NUERNBERG. A follow-up meeting took place on Dec. 30 at Cadiz on board the Spanish cruiser CANARIAS, to which partecipated Rear-Admiral Angelo Iachino, commanding the Italian forces in Spanish waters, which had reached Cadiz on Dec. 29 on board the NICOLOSO DA RECCO, Admiral von Fischer of the GRAF SPEE Gruppe and Admiral Cervera.
So I would say QUARTO for sure and probably AQUILA..
The absence of any reaction to my latest post means that the use of the English language is not approved? Is Italian easier, by any chance?
Hi de domenico!
No, the use of english language is absolutely ok!!!
Sometimes reactions take some time...
And maybe no reaction means that nobody contradicts your facts and conclusions. :wink:
By the way, italian would be understood by even less people :-D
Hello DE DOMENICO!
Of course, I highly appreciated your detailled information - it includes exactly for what I was looking for! Thanks for that!
The reason for my non reaction is quite simply - I am sick and need to be in bed for the most time ...
BTW, also ENRICO answered to my question via email. He used the same source and added the interesting detail, that the chartered tanker UTILITAS was also at Tanger from 06.10.1936 until 20.02.1937 to supply the Italian ships.