Hello fellows, I am curious about the paintwork of SS Deutschland during KM service. Based on a photo taken in Jan.1945 it still retained the painting of pre-war era: black hull, white upper body with red-white-black funnel tops etc. According to Wikipedia the ship was used as accomodation ship for the KM in ww2. Most other KM accomodation ships seem to have camo/dazzle paintwork. Was SS Deutschland an exception or was the supposed 1945 photo actually taken before the outbreak of war?
Second question: for the safety ships a.k.a. ambulance ships with light armament, used to save shipwrecked sailors in a convoy, and the wounded tranport ships a.k.a. VTS, what were their paintworks like? Were they painted white with red cross like the hospital ships and LAZ rescue tugs, or were they retaining their civilian paintwork, or were they camouflaged? I saw a photo of VTS Urundi with camo, but not sure if it was taken when the ship was a VTS, its Sealion number A18 was removed though.
Thanks
Hi! On such ships was applied camouflage. Here are a couple photos of ships. Regards Muchibushi
Thank you for the wonderful pictures! I know Leda was a safety ship, but for the Petter Wessel, different websites variously called her a minelayer, troopship, acommodation ship etc. Was she a safety ship or a VTS? How about the paintwork of SS Deutschland as acommodation ship?
http://www.kreisgemeinschaft-wehlau.de/Flucht-Vertreibung/900-0048%20%20Der%20Dampfer%20Deutschland%20nahm%20auf%20seiner%20ersten%20Reise%20am%2031.%20Januar%201945%20rund%2010.jpg
Hi ?NAME?,
here is an interesting discussion regarding kriegsmarine accomodation ships in Danzig:
http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=7233.0
Please notice this contained link:
http://www.taucher.net/redaktion/62/mine/t_U171HLHansaHRHamburgDez41InDanzigAlbumLau60.jpg
(December 1941 - Danzig)
On this photo you possibly see Hamburg in the near background and possibly Deutschland (not Hansa) behind the buildings. Both ships seem to wear their peacetime paintings.
Sebastian
Thanks a lot! The picture of Danzig is very interesting, it seemed indeed some of the accomodation ships were retaining their original painting. I will go through the other link thoroughly.
Hi,
bzgl. VTS: --/>/> http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/km/vts.htm
Zitat
Auszug aus der O.K.M.-Verfügung vom 26. 9. 1944:
"Betr. Begriffsbestimmung und Einsatzregelung für Verwundetentransportschiffe".
". . . Das V.T.S. dient ausschließlich dem Massentransport von Verwundeten über See in besonderen Bedarfsfällen. Verwundetentransportschiffe werden nur vorübergehend und für begrenzte Aufgaben eingesetzt, nach deren Erledigung sie sofort zurückzugeben sind. Bezeichnung als 'Verwundetentransportschiff' nur für die Dauer des Sondereinsatzes.
Keine internationale Notifizierung, kein internationaler Schutzanstrich. Bewaffnung wie Transportschiffe.
Für den inneren Betrieb an Bord ist für die gesamte Einsatzdauer die 'Dienstanweisung für den Dienst auf Lazarettschiffen' gültig."
:MG:
Darius
Die komplette Verfügung (O.K.M. Skl/Adm Qu I Nr. 34235 geh) ist veröffentlicht in
Volker HARTMANN, Hartmut NÖLDEKE
Verwundetentransport über See
Deutsche Lazarett- und Verwundetentransportschiffe im Zweiten Weltkrieg
ISBN 978-3-89911-127-9
Seite 213-214
Thank you all for kindly posting the information and links!
One more question regarding the VTS: what is the purpose to set such a category of ships? If the VTS were designed to carry wounded soldiers, then they were essentially of the same function as hospital ships, meanwhile they did not have legal status to be protected under international law, so why the German navy used less protected ships when they could have been protected? Is it because Soviet Union did not join the Geneva convention so it made little sense to modify/paint VTS into hospital ships, which the Soviet navy also did not recognize as immune from attack?
"nur vorübergehend und für begrenzte Aufgaben eingesetzt,
nach deren Erledigung sie sofort zurückzugeben sind. Bezeichnung als 'Verwundetentransportschiff' nur für die Dauer des Sondereinsatzes."
The registration for hospital ships made them unusable for the transport of weapons. The Kriegsmarine wanted to use them today for wounded soldiers, and tomorrow for other purposes. They transported wounded and not wounded soldiers as well as their weapons. They had no room and no personal for medical operations. And they were fitted out with (flak) weapons!
Besides: The US Navy has operated this category as well.
Ich wäre interessier an einer Antwort auf die Frage: Inwieweit wurden diese VTS mit ihren grünen Kreuzen (Wenn ich mich nicht irre) von den Feindmächten respektiert?
Aber das gehört in einen anderen thread.
Gruß, Thomas
Zitat von: TW am 19 November 2014, 10:38:22
"nur vorübergehend und für begrenzte Aufgaben eingesetzt,
nach deren Erledigung sie sofort zurückzugeben sind. Bezeichnung als 'Verwundetentransportschiff' nur für die Dauer des Sondereinsatzes."
The registration for hospital ships made them unusable for the transport of weapons. The Kriegsmarine wanted to use them today for wounded soldiers, and tomorrow for other purposes. They transported wounded and not wounded soldiers as well as their weapons. They had no room and no personal for medical operations. And they were fitted out with (flak) weapons!
Besides: The US Navy has operated this category as well.
Thank you for the answer, now it makes sense. So basically, VTS were a improvised designation given to certain common transports when they were carrying wounded soldiers. When the same ships were carrying other things i.g. weapons, then they no longer had this designation.
I have one more question about German medical ships. These ships AFAIK include the following categories:
1.hospital ships, painted white with red cross and green belt, protected. At least one was sunk by RAF.
2.VTS, camouflaged and armed, not protected.
3.safety ships, used to salvage shipwrecked sailors in convoys, camouflaged and armed, not protected.
4.LAZ rescue tugs, painted white with red cross, without visible weapons. Protected?
5.Luftwaffe search & rescue boats, armed, not protected.
6.Luftwaffe motor lifeboats, painted white with red cross, protected?
Any other medical ship categories? Thank you.
Zitat von: TW am 19 November 2014, 10:50:43
Ich wäre interessier an einer Antwort auf die Frage: Inwieweit wurden diese VTS mit ihren grünen Kreuzen (Wenn ich mich nicht irre) von den Feindmächten respektiert?
Aber das gehört in einen anderen thread.
Gruß, Thomas
Based on photos available, there seemed to be no green crosses on these ships. Or do you mean the green cross were on flags during their VTS voyages, and taken off when they transport other things?
Steubon
(http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/4502-bilder/steuben-sb.jpg)
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/45-02.htm
and Urundi
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Foto-Kriegsmarine-Schiff-Blockadebrecher-Camo-Hafen-Oulo-Finnland-N-/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/z4YAAMXQVT9SzFvE/$_57.JPG)