I am confident that this subject will be of interest to the many shiplovers of the Forum.
We are publishing here on the current (2014) issue of the Bollettino AIDMEN (Associaz. Italiana di Documentaz. Marittima e Navale), we believe for the first time, the complete list of the pennant numbers which the Regia Marina attributed to the vessels included in the Forza Navale Speciale (FNS) created on 1 June 1942 for the Operazione C3, the planned landing in Malta.
This list, the outcome of painstaking research work done by AIDMEN member Marco Ghiglino at the Ufficio Storico della Marina Militare (USMM), is intended as the first instalment of a complete reappraisal of all the pennants given to Regia Marina requisitioned merchant vessels during World War II, an overdue updating of the well-known Dr. Jung Liste published on Forum-Marinearchiv.
The list includes both converted Regia Marina vessels and requisitioned ships. It was in fact intended to include both the landing craft being built ad hoc for Operazione C3 and merchant vessels taken up and adapted for the purpose. So the 100 small 15-ton motolance (ML) took up numbers 601 to 700, while the 65 239-ton motozattere of the fist batch wore numbers 701 to 765.
The sequence continues with our Ghiglino' List: nos 801 to 824 were 24 requisitioned and converted Venice motoscafi lagunari (MF), 831/832 were two small Venice lagoon passenger motor-ships, 833 to 835 were DURAZZO Class minelayers fitted with fire brigades' escalators, 841 to 844 were the four SESIA Class water tankers designed as infantry landing ships, 851 to 852 were two Messina Straits ferries, 861 to 863 were small passenger motor-vessels and steamers.
The sequence continues from number 901 to 949 with about fifty motor-schooners previously taken over for the Corfu and Crete landings and now re-numbered for Malta.
It is significant to note in this context that when a second, additional batch of 40 motozattere was ordered in July 1942, nine motozattere of the first batch were re-numbered with the names/pennants of vessels which had become early war losses, so as to allow the pennant numbers of the second batch not to go beyond number 800 and therefore to avoid any overlapping with the motoscafi lagunari: a proof of the fact that the FNS pennants were not intended as a mere interim.
Operazione C3 was actually abandoned on 27 July 1942, but several vessels of FNS were employed in November 1942 for the Corsica landings. The Forza Navale Speciale was officially disbanded only on 5 January 1943.
You will find the complete list here:
http://www.aidmen.it/articles.html/_/articles/le-sigle-della-forza-navale-speciale-r49
An excellent document.
Thanks, de domenico.
Congrats to both of you Francesco, you did a great job! top
Thanks for sharing
DG
Danke Francesco !!
Eine feine internationale Zusammenarbeit.
Vielleicht ist es möglich das wir die ganzen Kennungen zusammen im HMA vereinigen und dort für weitere Einträge auch die FR- Kennungen einfügen ?
Ein feines Wochenende
Theo
Many thanks. Great work!! top top
Zitat von: TD am 10 April 2015, 15:46:18
Danke Francesco !!
Eine feine internationale Zusammenarbeit.
Vielleicht ist es möglich das wir die ganzen Kennungen zusammen im HMA vereinigen und dort für weitere Einträge auch die FR- Kennungen einfügen ?
Ein feines Wochenende
I am sorry, Theodor, but as Marco and I wrote in the summary, that is intended to be the first part of an overall revisiting and updating of the so-called Dr. Jung'List, which was actually the result of much work by Achille Rastelli and Guido Alfano, both late members of AIDMEN. So your request cannot be accepted: everybody wishing to see the list has easy access to the AIDMEN site.
Francesco
Excellent work. On a topic that hasn't been much researched yet.
So great a compliment to you.
Thanks, grazie
Markus :MG:
Enclosed and maybe of interest for you the map of Malta as seen in the eyes of the German "Marinedienstvorschrift" (in fact naval intelligence manual) from 1941.
Sorry for the poor quality. Old photocopies from the 90s but the manual is now hard to find.
Grazie e ciao
Markus
WOW top
Ist das die komplette M.Dv.?
Komplett leider nicht, aber noch Fragmente...
Gruß
Markus
so, hier noch nächster Teil
Danke! top
Hier noch der bei mir vorhandene Rest.
Leider, that's all. Aber immerhin keine lästigen Copyrightprobleme.
Gruß
Markus
... ja genau, immerhin ...
Nochmals vielen Dank für´s Zeigen dieser interessanten Sache! :MG:
I attach a pair of pictures of Forza Navale Speciale boats with recognizable pennant numbers, also published in Bollettino AIDMEN no. 28/2014.
The second picture. Please remark that LUIGI VERNI is a trabaccolo, not a bragozzo...(an errata corrige to appear on next issue of the Bollettino).
Hallo zusammen,
ich habe erst heute dieses Thema gesehen.
Prima Arbeit. Ich hoffe, dass viele spannende und ergänzende Infos zu den MZs und ML-Booten hier zusammenkommen.
Gerade die Verwendung der ehem. ital. Infanterielandungsboote durch die Kriegsmarine (u.a. Verbände?) erwartet eine Ergänzung im HMA.
:MG:
Darius
Dear Darius,
I shall soon be posting some interesting information about 10 former Regia Marina MZs, captured by the Kriegsmarine at Riva Trigoso while still fitting out or on the slip, and correcting some faulty data on HMA, in connection with the Forza Navale Speciale contribution on forum AIDMEN.
Regards,
Francesco
Hallo Francesco,
freue mich schon zu diesen Fährprähmen mehr lesen zu können.
Ist doch immer noch eine sehr unklare Baustelle !
Danke#
Theo
1. The former Regia Marina motozattere captured by the Kriegsmarine on 9 Sept. 1943 were given F numbers corresponding to their former Italian numbers.
However, this was only true as regards the MZ already in commission with the RM, and not for the 10 MZs still fitting out or still on the slips at Riva Trigoso: this is the key issue which so far the HMA staff had not addressed.
2. As we know, nine RM MZs of the first batch of 65 (MZ 701 to 765) changed their names on 1.3.1943, taking on the names of units previously lost. This was done, as Marco Ghiglino and I pointed out in our contribution "Le sigle della Forza Navale Speciale" available on Forum AIDMEN, simply to avoid any overlapping of the numbers to be assigned to the 40 MZs of the second batch with the numbers already extant for other Malta FNS vessels (in our case, the former Venice Motoscafi Lagunari which had been christened MF 801 to 824). Therefore, the second batch of MZs were named backwards MZ 761 (ii) to 765 (ii) and 766 to 800.
3. Ten incomplete RM MZs, as it happens numbers 761 (ii) to 765 (ii) and 766 to 770, were captured by the Germans on 9.9.1943 at Cantieri Navali del Tirreno, Riva Trigoso (yard nos 174 to 183). The KM completed them in 1943-44.
4. The KM did not, in their case, follow the practice of keeping their former RM numbers, but chose to name them in a new sequence starting from F 766. The reason for this may only be surmised: the Kriegsmarine wanted to avoid any confusion between their new units and the Italian old/new number sequence, which as we know ended with MZ 765 (ii). We should also keep in mind that both the newly completed RM MZs 759 ex 764 (i) and 760 ex 765 (i) fell into German hands at Genova....
5. Therefore, putting together the data gathered from HMA and that kindly provided by my friend Domenico Clarizia on Forum AIDMEN, I suggest the following sequence, which solves many issues left open by the current HMA data:
Riva Trigoso c.n. 174 MZ 761 (ii), launch 10.7.1943, completed by the KM 16.10.1943 as F 766
" " c.n. 175 MZ 762 (ii), launch 10.7.1943, " " 6.11.1943 as F 767/0767/2767
" " c.n. 176 MZ 763 (ii), KM launch 23.10.1943 and completed 1.12.1943 as F 768/2768/4768
" " c.n. 177 MZ 764 (ii), KM launch 30.10.1943 " 31.12.1943 as F 769/0769/2769
" " c.n. 178 MZ 765 (ii), KM launch 15.12.1943 " 11/17.1.1944 as F 770/0770/1770
" " c.n. 179 MZ 766, KM launch 20.1.1944 and completed 5.2.1944 as F 771
" " c.n. 180 MZ 767, KM launch 1.1944 (?) " .2.1944 as F 772/4772
" " c.n. 181 MZ 768, " 15.1.1944 " 16.1.1945 (?) as F 773
" " c.n. 182 MZ 769, " 15.4.1944 " 8.7.1944 as F 774
" " c.n. 183 MZ 770, " 17.9.1944 (?) " 1.12.1944 as F 775
Kind regards,
Francesco De Domenico
AIDMEN Chairman
Hello Francesco,
thank you for this data. We´ll check the HMA for any correction.
So there is a "mathematic" solution for the confusing renumbering.
Say "Hi" also to Marco :wink:
:MG:
Darius
Hallo Francesco,
wieder etwas zu den immer noch unklaren 10 Marinefährprähmen !
Ich komme einfach nicht klar mit den ganzen Meldungen vorab zu diesen so früh gemeldeten 10 MFP ohne weitere Hinweise in Italien.
Kann es sein das es sich bei
Riva Trigoso c.n. 174 MZ 761 (ii), launch 10.7.1943, completed by the KM 16.10.1943 as F 766
" " c.n. 175 MZ 762 (ii), launch 10.7.1943, " " 6.11.1943 as F 767/0767/2767
bei den Stapelaufmeldungen um Zahlendreher handelt
174 M.Z. 761 (II) Regia Marina landíng craft 1943 07.10.1943
175 M.Z. 762 (II) Regia Marina landíng craft 1943 07.10.1943
10.07.1943 statt 7.10.1943?
Auf jeden Fall erst einmal vielen Dank für deine Mühe.
Es gibt wieder viel zu tun !
Grüße
Theo
I think you are right about those two launching dates of MZ 761(ii) and 762 (ii), but this does not challenge the overall structure of my suggested list vs. the HMA layout.