Hi,
Here are some more photos from my Schnellboot album Link: http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,27877.15.html
We can follow S 28 by identifying the "turist" photos.
See it as a game. Who can find these places?
/Alo
Das erste Foto:
Es sieht aus wie das Reiterdenkmal Kaiser Wilhelm der Erste (Grosse) in Danzig.
Grüße Joern
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Kaiser-Wilhelm-I.-Reiterdenkm%C3%A4ler (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Kaiser-Wilhelm-I.-Reiterdenkm%C3%A4ler)
Hallo,
from No. 2 is Helsinki and I think the other all also.
Years ago was in the shop line the very good bookshop of university with a lot good offers of navy, flight and army literature. I lost a lot of money there!
REINHARD
Schulterklopf an Jörn
Deine Danzig-Ident ist richtig.
Auch wenn es deutliche Veränderungen gegenüber der Standbild-Version aus dem Kaiserreich gab, ist das Schmuckwerk am Hohen Tor das nämliche.
Auf Alos Bild ist links das Danziger Wappen zu erkennen und auch 'Wilhelm der Grosse' zu lesen.
Gruß - Hägar
Hallo,
dank des Hinweis Helsinki von Reinhard :MG:
Turist 2a https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uspenski-Kathedrale
Turist 4a (https://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stadinratikat.fi%2Ffotot%2Fkunnostuskuvat%2F233_Mansku_N16254B.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stadinratikat.fi%2F233kunnostus.html&docid=nj6XTc07D9jKkM&tbnid=D9Vof6ISiZxNJM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiizuiUioPTAhXLFJoKHamuCHMQMwgiKAcwBw..i&w=618&h=356&bih=800&biw=1280&q=helsinki%20%201942&ved=0ahUKEwiizuiUioPTAhXLFJoKHamuCHMQMwgiKAcwBw&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=356&imgrc=D9Vof6ISiZxNJM:&vet=10ahUKEwiizuiUioPTAhXLFJoKHamuCHMQMwgiKAcwBw..i&w=618) https://hkm.finna.fi/Record/hkm.HKMS000005:km0026qn?lng=sv
Turist 9a Turm Olympiastadion https://structurae.de/bauwerke/turm-des-olympiastadions-in-helsinki
Zitat von: bettika61 am 01 April 2017, 13:07:09
Hallo,
dank des Hinweis Helsinki von Reinhard :MG:
Turist 2a https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uspenski-Kathedrale
Turist 4a (https://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stadinratikat.fi%2Ffotot%2Fkunnostuskuvat%2F233_Mansku_N16254B.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stadinratikat.fi%2F233kunnostus.html&docid=nj6XTc07D9jKkM&tbnid=D9Vof6ISiZxNJM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiizuiUioPTAhXLFJoKHamuCHMQMwgiKAcwBw..i&w=618&h=356&bih=800&biw=1280&q=helsinki%20%201942&ved=0ahUKEwiizuiUioPTAhXLFJoKHamuCHMQMwgiKAcwBw&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=356&imgrc=D9Vof6ISiZxNJM:&vet=10ahUKEwiizuiUioPTAhXLFJoKHamuCHMQMwgiKAcwBw..i&w=618) https://hkm.finna.fi/Record/hkm.HKMS000005:km0026qn?lng=sv
Vielleicht etwas einfacher? Bild 4 zeigt den Reichstag als kubischen "Kasten" und das Nationalmeseum rechts daneben im Hintergrund mit dem Turm.
I am very impressed with the speed you all solved it :MG:
Here is what the places looks like today.
The S 28 got to Danzig on 15 June 1941 and left for Gotenhafen the next day. The photo of the album man is probebly from then. He has also got a new Schnellboot or Zerstörerabzeichen.
Do anyone know when S 28 got to Helsinki?
/Alo
moin, Alo,
Zitat von: alo41 am 01 April 2017, 17:18:13
The S 28 got to Danzig on 15 June 1941 and left for Gotenhafen the next day.
Ich habe da etwas andere Daten :
11.6.41 Verlegen (S 26, S 27, S 28, S 29, S 39, S 40, S 101, S 102, S 103) von Swinemünde nach Neufahrwasser
17.6. Verlegen (S 27, S 28, S 29) von Neufahrwasser nach Gotenhafen, Boot bilden dort die kurzfristig aufgestellte 5. SFltl
Zitat von: alo41 am 01 April 2017, 17:18:13
Do anyone know when S 28 got to Helsinki?
24./25.8.41 Erfolgloser Angriff (S 26, S 27, S 28) auf sowjetischen Geleitzug im ,,Juminda"-Minenfeld, auf dem Rückmarsch Kollision S 28 mit finnischem Unterseeboot ,,Saukko", Boote werden in Helsinki mühsam voneinander getrennt
9.9.41 Verlegen S 28 von Helsinki nach Kotka
Gruß, Urs
Hi Urs,
There seams to be a few misstakes in Hümmelchen regarding this time. It makes more sence that the album man got a day of if it could be between 11 and 17 of June. I think there is a mix up with when Carl Peters came and left Neufahrwasser.
I have never understod how the 5 S-Ftl were deployed. From where did they go on thier first (and only?) mission together (22 June, S 28, S 29, S 45, S 47 and S 27).
After that the S 28 was operating with the 2 S-Ftl (24 and 27 June). She was then back with 1 S-Ftl on 10 and 14 July (in Helsinki?).
There is a photo of at least three Schnellboote (one is S 29) in Kotka. Was the whole 1 S-Ftl there?
/Alo
Hi,
There is a Schnellboot conection with the Olympia stadion in Helsinki. The 1 S-Ftl was there to see the Finland /Germany match on 5 Oct 1941. It ended with 6-0 to Germany, 7138 spectators. I do not think that the S 28 crew was there and the photos are not from my album.
Töniges 1k: 1 S-Ftl watching the game. Luftwaffe soliders behind.
Töniges 2k: The officers are sitting with the civilans. From right to left, Fimmen, Töniges and Büchting(?).
Töniges 3k, 4k: Flowers for the german team. Töniges on 4k.
Töniges 5k: The team with the Kriegsmarine officers. From the left: No 5 Büchting without cap, No 6 Fimmen, No 7 player with Büchtings cap, No 8 Töniges.
Was only S 26, S 27 and S 102 in Helsinki on the 5 Oct 1941? Were the rest in Kotka?
/Alo
moin, Alo,
Zitat von: alo41 am 02 April 2017, 07:20:44
I have never understod how the 5 S-Ftl were deployed. From where did they go on thier first (and only?) mission together (22 June, S 28, S 29, S 45, S 47 and S 27).
After that the S 28 was operating with the 2 S-Ftl (24 and 27 June). She was then back with 1 S-Ftl on 10 and 14 July (in Helsinki?).
My S 28 diary says :
17.6. Verlegen (S 27, S 28, S 29) von Neufahrwasser nach Gotenhafen, Boot bilden dort die kurzfristig aufgestellte 5. SFltl
22.6.41 Beginn des Feldzugs gegen die Sowjetunion (,,Barbarossa")
17.6.41 - 1.7. zu 5. SFltl abgeteilt, ab 1.7. wieder (1.)
22.6.41 Minenunternehmung ,,Eisenach" Irbenstraße (S 27, S 28, S 29, S 45), anschl. Einlaufen Nyhamn
23.6.41 estn. Frachter Estonia (1181 BRT) aufgebracht
24./25.6.41 Minenunternehmung (S 28 (5.) und S 41, S 44, S 46, S 104, S 105, S 106 (2. SFltl)) bei Kap Tachkona
26./27.6.41 Sicherung (S 28 und S 41, S 46 (2. SFltl)) der Minenunternehmung ,,Apolda" (Minenschiff ,,Brummer")
1./2.7.41 Minenunternehmung (S 28 und S 41, S 46 (2. SFltl) und R-Boote) in ,,Apolda"-Sperrlücke
2.7.41 wieder bei 1. SFltl
3.7.41 Auslaufen (S 40, S 101) zur Aufnahme von S 28, das zur 1. SFltl zurückkehrt
4.7.41 Angriff (S 26, S 27, S 28, S 40, S 101) auf sowjetischen Geleitzug, nicht gesichtet, nach laufenden Luftangriffen zurück, Einlaufen in Sveaborg
Zitat von: alo41 am 02 April 2017, 07:20:44
There is a photo of at least three Schnellboote (one is S 29) in Kotka. Was the whole 1 S-Ftl there?
Nein, nicht immer und nur die einsatzbereiten Boote
Am 2.9.41 verlegten
S 26,
S 29,
S 40,
S 101 und
S 108 von Helsinki nach Kotka
Am 5.9. verlegt
S 39, am 9.9. verlegt
S 28 nach Kotka, am 7.9.
S 101 nach Helsinki
Am 14.9.41 verlegen
S 26,
S 27,
S 28,
S 29,
S 39,
S 108 von Kotka nach Suomenlinna
Am 23.9.41 verlegten
S 28,
S 29,
S 40 und
S 101 von Suomenlinna zurück nach Kotka und blieben bis zum 15.10. dort.
Gruß, Urs
moin, Alo,
Zitat von: alo41 am 02 April 2017, 09:17:44
Töniges 2k: ... From right to left, Fimmen, Töniges and Büchting(?).
Bei Büchting habe ich auch Zweifel. Ich glaube : nein
Büchting hatte kein solches Muttermal links im Gesicht.
Zitat von: alo41 am 02 April 2017, 09:17:44
Was only S 26, S 27 and S 102 in Helsinki on the 5 Oct 1941? Were the rest in Kotka?
S 26,
S 27,
S 102 und
S 108 lagen in Helsinki,
S 28,
S 29,
S 40 und
S 101 in Kotka
S 39 war am 2.10. nach Swinemünde ausgelaufen (Ankunft 4.10.) und verlegte am 5.10. nach Kiel
Gruß, Urs
Excellent Urs,
I will now have to update and correct my Hümmelchen. :-)
I guess S 28 was then based in Helsinki from 3 or 4 July.
I am not sure about Büchting either but here is a photo showing a mole. it could be the shadow that makes it look big and it could also have been retouched from some photos. I will now look for Kunzel (S 108) as well. There are photos of a white Schnellboot in Finland. It must be the new S 108.
Here are also the last of the fotball photos.
Töniges 6k: Büchting has now also lost his jacket and is rolling a team member (team leader?) with his flowers. The team member was standing next to Büchting on photo 5k.
Töniges 7k: The team with the officers. Note Waffen SS officer in the back to the right.
/Alo
moin, Alo,
Zitat von: alo41 am 02 April 2017, 14:57:48
I guess S 28 was then based in Helsinki from 3 or 4 July.
Ja.
Dazu ist zu bemerken, daß im KTB der 1. SFltl die Standorte Helsinki, Suomenlinna und Sveaborg anscheinend ohne Unterschied bzw. synonym genutzt werden.
Meine Vermutung ist, daß auch bei Angabe "Standort Helsinki" die Boote in Suomenlinna lagen.
Zitat von: alo41 am 02 April 2017, 14:57:48
I am not sure about Büchting either but here is a photo showing a mole.
Ja, gut gesehen.
Gruß, Urs
Hi
A picknick.
picknick 1a: The S 28 crew
picknick 3a: The S 28 crew being served coffie by finish Lottas?
picknick 5a: By a lake with more crews? The S 28 crew to the left.
I think the photos shows a trip made to the Vihti lake on 25 July. The 1 S-Ftl had lost two comrades when swiming in the sea and all swiming was forbidden. The picknick was a compensation for that. Picknick 1a might show the S 28 crew after the funeral in full dress. Behren writes (page 52) that two from the S 40 crew were burid in Helsinki. Could that have been the two drowning victims?
/Alo
Hi,
Where there two drownings in the S 40 crew or were the deaths from something else? Or is Behrens wrong about S 40?
/Alo
moin, Alo,
im KTB der 1. SFltl wird es nicht erwähnt.
Gruß, Urs
Thank you Urs,
The next trip for S 28 in Finland was to a nice house. It looks like it was only S 28 that was there. I have seen a photo of this Place in a 2 S-Ftl album as well. What where when is it?
Villa 1a: S 28 with the Leopard Wappen. The flag makes the place look official.
Villa 2a: Probebly S 28 from the other side.
Villa 3a, 4a, 5a: The house. Looks newly built.
Villa 6a: The staff. Looks like a mix of nurses, Lottas, kitchen staff and civilans.
Villa 7a: The album mann washing his shirt for the dinner with the girls. There is something written on the stone.
Villa 8a: The dinner.
/Alo
And the rest of the photos:
Hello, Alo
One question and one comment. Can you check if the flag in photo Villa 1a has a swallowtail or a coat of arms? In one of the war diaries of Helsinki Navy base it is written on 20. July that "it must be reminded that swimming in Pohjoissatama is forbidden." Pohjoissatama is north from Katajanokka that had much of naval infrastructure, like piers, yards, barracks. Is it possible that the drownings were for example from minesweepers?
Jari
Hi Jari,
The flag looks like a standard finish flag without tails.
I have added two Vihit lake pages from an S 103 photo album and the page from Behrens book with the funeral. I think the two are connected but I have not got any proof.
The funeral photos are realy from Helsinki showing the Sandudd cematery. You can see the Chapel in the back ground.
/Alo
Hi
I think I found the names on the two drowned men. Link: http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2013/helsinki_kriegsgraeberstaette_frdhf-hietaniemi_wk2_finn.html
Matrose Walter Schneider, 15 July 1941
Matrose Walter Kreuzberg 23 or 24 July 1941
I do not know if they were on a Schnellboot ( S 40?) or on any other boat.
/Alo
Hello
I have identified the villa. It is a restaurant and accomodation building of the Finnish Tourist Association (Suomen Matkailijayhdistys) located in island Stormälö in Parainen (Pargas). The building was completed in 1941. Today the place is hotel and restaurant Airisto Strand. In their history page http://airistostrand.fi/index_svenska.html is a video clip from 1956 that shows the building at 1:20 minutes and a couple of photos of the building.
So, the "where" has been found out, for "when" you have to check when S 28 was stationed in the west, also in Turku or Saaristomeri area.
Jari
Hi jari,
great work :MG: top
Excellent Jari :-) :-) :-) :MG:
I have realy tryed to solve it but have not succeded.
The S 28 was with the 2 S-Ftl from the 22 June to 1 July 1941. It must be from that time.
Information from Urs:
22.6.41 Minenunternehmung ,,Eisenach" Irbenstraße (S 27, S 28, S 29, S 45), anschl. Einlaufen Nyhamn
23.6.41 estn. Frachter Estonia (1181 BRT) aufgebracht
24./25.6.41 Minenunternehmung (S 28 (5.) und S 41, S 44, S 46, S 104, S 105, S 106 (2. SFltl)) bei Kap Tachkona
26./27.6.41 Sicherung (S 28 und S 41, S 46 (2. SFltl)) der Minenunternehmung ,,Apolda" (Minenschiff ,,Brummer")
1./2.7.41 Minenunternehmung (S 28 und S 41, S 46 (2. SFltl) und R-Boote) in ,,Apolda"-Sperrlücke
/Alo
Hello,
Glad to be of help. I was thinking the flag in picture Villa 1a. The Midsummer day is also the Day of the Finnish Flag. The flag is hoisted on Midsummer's eve at 6 PM and flown through the night until 9 PM the next day. Midsummer was always celebrated on 24.6. till year 1954. So could this be on the evening of 23.6. (after 6 PM) or, more likely, on 24.6, also the day before the Kap Tahkona operation?
Jari
Edited the toughts of the dates.
Hi Jari,
Yes it must be close to midsummer. It was easy to make some "Then and now" once the place is known. There were some more photos that must have been taken on Airisto strand.
Thanks agin
Alo
hi,
Zitat von: jja60 am 22 April 2017, 20:49:13
.. the villa. It is a restaurant and accomodation building of the Finnish Tourist Association (Suomen Matkailijayhdistys) located in island Stormälö in Parainen (Pargas). .
So, the "where" has been found out, for "when" you have to check when S 28 was stationed in the west, also in Turku or Saaristomeri area.
S 28 kam gemäß Befehl F.d.T. am 24.6. mittags zum Liegeplatz der 2. SFltl.
Da KptLt Klug der dienstälteste anwesende Kommandant war, führte er die Tahkona-Minenunternehmung; das KTB der 2. SFltl verweist für Einzelheiten auf das KTB der 5. SFltl, die bis zum 1.7. nominell noch bestand.
Die Boote der 2. SFltl waren also für dieses Unternehmen offiziell der 5. SFltl unterstellt, und nicht
S 28 der 2. SFltl !
Für die beiden Unternehmungen
26./27.6.41 Sicherung (
S 28 und
S 41,
S 46 (2. SFltl)) der Minenunternehmung ,,Apolda" (Minenschiff ,,Brummer") und
1./2.7.41 Minenunternehmung (
S 28 und
S 41,
S 46 (2. SFltl) und R-Boote) in ,,Apolda"-Sperrlücke
waren
S 41 und
S 46 offiziell der 5. SFltl zugeteilt
Die 2. SFltl lag in Pensar, das nur ca. 10 sm von Airisto/Stormälö entfernt liegt.
Eine Dokumentation (d.h. das KTB der 5. SFltl für Juni 1941), wo
S 28 in der Nacht 23./24.6. und am Vormittag des 24.6. lag, habe ich leider (noch) nicht.
Zitat von: alo41 am 17 April 2017, 21:51:34
The funeral photos are realy from Helsinki showing the Sandudd cematery.
Das obere Bild mit dem Fltl-Chef KptLt Birnbacher als "Erstem Leidtragenden" (chief mourner) ?
Gruß, Urs
Hallo Alo eine sehr schöne Gegenüberstellung der Bilder-früher-heute- top
Thank you,
The last "turist" photos with FKK and fishing. I think you can find the exact spots.
/Alo
Hello
The place is unmistakable, Suomenlinna / Sveaborg. The exact spot in FKK 1 and FKK 2 is the entrance to dock bay (Varvilahti). The pier is on the south side and view in FKK 1 is along the west side of Länsi-Musta island and in FKK 2 towards buildings E3 and E4 on Länsi-Musta island. Suomenlinna has no street names, the addresses are given as island letter and building number.
The exact location of the fisherman is not yet clear.
Jari
Yes, it is!
Here is a " FKK Then and now".
You are quite close to the fisherman.
/Alo
Hello
I would say that the fisherman is at the outer gate of the Susisaari drydock. On the background is bastion Hamilton that is on the south side of the dock.
Jari
Yes :-)
Note that you can see the aft of S 28 to the left.
I had some problem with finding a photo taken there.
I do not have any more "turist" photos. I will post the last ones from the album in a new thread. Link: http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=28049.msg317618;topicseen#new
/Alo
I found some more on the Airisto hotell on Stormälö (page 2, photos Villa 2a and 7 a).
Stormälö was used as a U-Boot base with M/S Seeburg and M/S Kregeld. I have attached a photo of U 145 visiting the Airisto hotel in the same way as S 28. The custom to write grafiti on the rock (Villa 7a) is still on going. Is there any from the war left?
/Alo
moin,
Zitat von: jja60 am 22 April 2017, 20:49:13
I have identified the villa. It is a restaurant and accomodation building of the Finnish Tourist Association (Suomen Matkailijayhdistys) located in island Stormälö in Parainen (Pargas).
So, the "where" has been found out, for "when" you have to check when S 28 was stationed in the west, also in Turku or Saaristomeri area.
Ich habe jetzt auch den Dokumentenbezug gefunden.
Am 19.6.41 wurde durch den FdT nach einer Besichtigungsfahrt in Pensar und Umgebung als Liegeplatz für die 5. SFltl das
"Sporthotel Stor Melö" bestimmt. Ein Grund dafür war die Nähe des Liegeplatzes der
Carl Peters an der Nordseite der Insel "Lillnagu" (vermutl. Schreibfehler, für "Lillmälö")
Gruß, Urs
Thanks Urs :-)
I have attached a map showing the islands. I do not know the exact spot for Carl Peters.
/Alo
moin, Alo,
Zitat von: alo41 am 29 April 2017, 16:52:56
I have attached a map showing the islands. I do not know the exact spot for Carl Peters.
Der FdT KzS Bütow schreibt in seinem KTB, daß zwischen CP und dem Liegeplatz der Flottille bzw. dem Hotel
Sichtverbindung bestand.
Der Liegeplatz ist also wahrscheinlich nordöstlicher als deine Pin-Position, wohl in der flachen Nordbucht am Nordostausläufer der Insel Lillelandet.
Gruß, Urs
Zitat von: Urs Heßling am 29 April 2017, 17:13:24
(...)
Der Liegeplatz ist also wahrscheinlich nordöstlicher als deine Pin-Position, wohl in der flachen Nordbucht am Nordostausläufer der Insel Lillelandet.
Gruß, Urs
Sollte es nicht statt Lillandet Lillmälö heißen? Lillandet liegt doch südwestlich der beiden Mälö.
Hi
I think I have found the place on Lillandet (or Lill Nagu or Pikko Nauvo in finish) based on a few photos of Carl Peters and Urs information.
Photo No 5 shows the first small island to the west of Carl Peters.
/Alo
Hi,
There is a lot of photos from Schnellbootbegleitschiff Carl Peters on Ebay. Link: https://www.ebay.de/sch/m.html?item=391989469760&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_ssn=kurmark-antik&_sop=10&_pgn=5&_skc=200&rt=nc
There are several showing Carl Peters at Lillnagu in Finland 1941. (the seller got it wrong, it is not Norway and not a battleship)
CP 1a: The on board Kino "Lill-Nagu" showed Bal pare´ on 11 July and Kora Terry on 24 July.
Link Bal Pare´: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odl5anGjjPw
Link Kora Terry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTUlBsipLas
I have a feeling that the Kora Terry was the most popular with the crew.
CP 2: At Lillnagu
CP 3: At Lillnagu
CP4a: Carl Peters Bordehund? Do anyone know the name?
/Alo