Hallo Marine National Experten,
da ja nun das französische Verteidigungsministerium alle möglichen Pläne von franzöischen Kriegsschiffen frei zu Download anbietet und die Qualität der Pläne exzellent ist, stellt sich mir nur noch eine Frage zum originalgetreuen Nachbau: welche Farbgebung hatten die Schiffe Ende des 19.Jahrhunderts (Schiffe um 1885 - 1900)?
Bei meinen eigenen Recherchen bin ich bisher auf folgende Farbschemas gestossen:
1. Rumpf schwarz, Aufbauten grau, Schornsteine gelb (aber irgendwie nicht alle Einheiten), Unterwasserschiff ??
2. Grau über alles, Wasserpass ??, Unterwasserschiff ??
Vielleicht kann mir hierbei einer von Euch helfen und hat genauere und/oder weiterführende Angaben. Im voraus besten Dank
Viele Grüße
ane
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Ach ja, hier noch der Link zu den Plänen:
http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/listebato/listebato.php (http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/listebato/listebato.php)
I can explain you exactly how it was, please tell me whether you understand French or not, otherwise I can write in English.
Formidable (1885)
Magenta (1890), here in her late version, aft mast removed
Démocratie, after 1907 grey painted, decks covered with linoleum, dark red-brown (this colour will turn to a brighter red after WW1). The hull is wrong, as it was painted " vert de Schweinfurt" with the exception of a thin line around waterline, this mistakes many people about underwater colour
The grey ('"gris bleuté")for painting the whole hull was adopted, January 26 1906 (not 1907 as I told before) At the same time, the thin white line (painted from June 07 1899 onwards) just above waterlevel, disapeared
on the contrary of Italy, French did not use the "Vert de Schweinfurt" after WW1 any longer: on the photo, in the background, the hull return to red
On May,06 1899, the upper superstructures were ordered to be painted in a lighter shade than the one used before. It seems that the old buff colour is definitively over, (a sad colour, very different from the one, a bright yellow, the Russians ships were painted with).
In Paris, the Hoche (1890) is painted according the older scheme, and, regarding the hull, the Vert de Schweinfurt has not been painted over yet
Hoche
Hoche
and here is what Jacques Druel, from L'Arsenal, explained some weeks ago
Here is a quote of Jacques Druel of L'Arsenal:
Quote:
1879/1898
-7 coats of black paint are given to the hull. 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of Schweinfurth green are applied to the underwater hull.
-Black funnels, superstructures and inside walls , white.
By order of 9 december 1879 funnels will be painted with different colours depending the affectation of each ship in the squadron. So some ships have a buff funnel and others a gray one. Black stripes on the funnel give the number of the ship in the division row.
In 1886 white paint was prohibited as an external color because it was suspected to aid the aiming of enemy gunners.
1898/1910:
By order of 7 June, a white line will be painted along the waterline. ( valid until 1908 )
By order of 12 June 1900 all funnels will have to be painted of the same color of the superstructures.
Ships serving in the Channel and Atlantic Ocean will have the following colors: black hull, light gray superstructures with a black stripe on the funnel.
Ships serving in the Mediterranean: Black hull with buff superstructures and funnels. Hull side walls are painted buff internally and externally.
Ich weiss nicht of dieses Farbschema korrekt ist. Die Postkarte ist von ca. 1904.
(http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b138/urudofsky/?action-view¤t=VictorHugo1.jpg)
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b138/urudofsky/?action=view¤t=VictorHugo1.jpg
Bonjour Renault, hallo Ulrich,
merci pour le photos e les informacions.
I'm building the small cruiser LAVOISIER (1:100) from 1997. After my recherches, i paint a green unterwater hull, a small white stripe as a "waterline", black hull and grey superstuctures. I think, this represent the color-scheme of the french navy from 1900.
If you are interessted, i will show you some photos of my cruiser.
And don't forget to leave the hull red around waterline, just as the Bouvet is painted, as the "vert de Schweinfurt" was not applied over the whole red minium paint.
i'll give you the colours and percentage to mix together to get the exact colour the superstructure was painted with.
Merci Renauld,
what was the reason to leave this small red stripe around the waterline? I've seen some modells without this red stripe (Musée de la Marine). Are they painted wrong? I also don't paint this red stripe, my hull is black, I have painted the small white stripe and the underwatership is green. But i think, it's possible in this state of building, to add the red stripe. I hope I can make some photos on weekend to show you my hull. Comments are welcome.
Thank you, greetings from Hamburg
ane
I haven't got any explanation for leaving this part of the hull unpainted with the vert de Schweinfurt over, anyway, painters and modelers often mistake as they guess the red extended to the whole hull. In fact, the whole hull was painted with, as the model of the Hoche in Paris gives an example, the Vert de Schweinfurt was painted over. This stuff needed frequent repainting.
Here is a photo of the Bouvines before the white line was painted, you can see two shades of dark grey above waterline, one just above waterline is the Minium red, and the rest of the hull is the "black" it was painted with, above the minium red.
Here is the Bouvines after 1898, after the white line is painted
Ater seeing the portside, right on the picture, you can notice that the black painting, reflected the light better than the Minium red below did. i suppose the black was somewhat a bit glossy, compared to the red.
The painting used for the superstructure vary from one shipyard to another. You have to mix some white with a little yellow, and very few black. On May, 6, 1899, this colour, called "toile mouillée" (wet linen) was brought back to only 25% (but which was the part of the white before?), mixed with 75% white. It resulted a much lighter shade.
I have just read that the red part above waterline could have been left uncovered to allow watching over it in an easier way. About what I supposed, concerning black vs red, the second one being a matte colour more than the first one, don't forget that B/W photos by that time make the red appear darker as it is really. This, adding to the slope of the hull, which reflects the light differently, may lend to discrepancy.
Here is the way how Albert Brenet, an appointed painter, saw the Magenta, as it could have been late XIX th century, by 1890, Atlantic fleet (Grey shade on superstructures)
Zitat von: ane am 23 Oktober 2007, 15:04:47
Merci Renauld,
what was the reason to leave this small red stripe around the waterline? I've seen some modells without this red stripe (Musée de la Marine). Are they painted wrong? I also don't paint this red stripe, my hull is black, I have painted the small white stripe and the underwatership is green. But i think, it's possible in this state of building, to add the red stripe. I hope I can make some photos on weekend to show you my hull. Comments are welcome.
Thank you, greetings from Hamburg
ane
How is your Lavoisier now? On www.papermodelers.com, Goldenbear (Carl Beetz) showed how he realized a card model of his own of the Lavoisier. He is working now on the British battleship Victoria (others: Hoche 1/400, and Masséna 1/250)