Hi,
Colleagues,
Read such information
14 Sept. 1943 CONFIDENTIAL
2. Own Situation Mediterranean
The 11th Motor Minesweeuer Flotilla seized the fleet tender
CIGNIO, one tug, and three drifters off Sestri Levante.
https://archive.org/stream/wardiarygermann491943germ/wardiarygermann491943germ_djvu.txt
By 14 September the entire coast of Liguria was controlled by German troops. Where did the Italian ships come from that needed to be captured? Please help me find out what really happened. Maybe this event happened earlier, but the report on it came only on the 14th?
cam
I only have a CIGNO, a cargo ship and former yacht of 440 grt/1894, ex SAGITTA ex MISURATA ex ARROW ex SAGITTA, owner Soc. An. Albaro of Genova, built by Hamilton at their Glen yard, converted in 1936 to a cargo vessel , renamed CIGNO in 1937, requisitioned by the Regia Marina on 13.5./1.6.1940 as the offshore pilot [read escort] vessel (pilotaggio Foraneo) F 1, captured at Genova on 8.9.1943.
Eine Quellen, in welcher ggf. etwas dazu stehen müsste - meine Ausgabe ist leider aktuell im Keller "vergraben":
--/>/> Chronik der 11. Räumbootflottille (https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,29933.msg338001.html#msg338001)
:MG:
Darius
Maybe the KTB of the 11th R-flotilla can be found out about this operation?
Hi cam,
I can´t find anything on this action in any KTB. But I´m still looking for...
:MG:
Darius
KTB des Befehlshabers des Deutschen Marinekommando Italien gives the original Nachricht:
14.09.1943Zitat[...] 2.) Durchführung "Achse" in den Häfen:
Bei Sestri Levante werden durch 11. R-Flottille 1 Aviso, 1 Schlepper, 3 Logger aufgebracht.[...]
Regards
Darius
Thanks Darius. :O/Y
So, this event happened all the same on 14th September . It would be interesting to know the details: which R-boats and how they participated and where the SKL took the name of Aviso note.
cam
In Anlage 5 to the KTB for 16.10.-31.10.1943 there is a report with this addtional information:
Zitat[...] 3. Portofino, San Margherita und Rapallo:
[...] Da sich der kleine Marinetrupp der 70. MS-Flottille nicht halten konnte, zog er sich auf den Stützpunkt der 11. R-Flottille nach Rapallo zurück. Von dort wurde am 11.9. mit einer Heereseinheit Portofino nach Brechung geringen Widerstandes zurückgenommen.[...]
In Rapallo hatte das Stützpunktpersonal der 11. R-Flottille, später unterstützt durch die Soldaten der 70. MS-Flottille, den Hafen gesichert und die dort liegenden 10 kleinen Fahrzeuge unbeschädigt in Besitz genommen.[...]
Maybe the 5 vessels you are looking for are included in the "10 kleinen Fahrzeuge"?
Regards
Darius
I don't think so. Rapallo is located 10 miles from Sestri Levante and in the message of the SKL is written about R-boats.
Hi cam,
ZitatDurch 11. R-Fl. sind Aviso "Cignio", 1 Schlepper und 3 Logger bei Sestri Levante aufgebracht.
Where do you see "R-Boote"? I only read "R-Flottille"... :?
:MG:
Darius
Zitat von: Darius am 22 Februar 2020, 22:07:27
Hi cam,
Where do you see "R-Boote"? I only read "R-Flottille"... :?
Darius
The 11th Motor Minesweeuer Flotilla seized the fleet tender
CIGNIO, one tug, and three drifters off Sestri Levante.It says "
off Sestri Levante." So not in the port.
DEFE 3/617, ZTPGM 34752:ZitatTOO 0602
TOI 1553/9/9/43
FROM: S.O. 70th M/S Flotilla and 11th R.Flotilla
TO: 'W'
MOST IMMEDATE
"ERNTE" at Porto Fino failed without the army. Encountering strong prepared defence. We are assembling at the (flak) position.
Query: Fetching by R-boats or where do we go from here if we are to proceed overland.
:MG:
Darius
Zitat von: cam am 22 Februar 2020, 22:21:29
It says "off Sestri Levante." So not in the port.
German origin is "
bei Sestri Levante" - this could be a port near this location.
Because I don´t have more sources, maybe someone else can help you.
Regards & :MG:
Darius
Thanks Darius.
You already found information that Italians don't have.
http://www.marina.difesa.it/media-cultura/editoria/bollettino/Documents/marzo_dicembre_2015.pdf
Maybe you can tell how the R-boats of the 11th flotilla participated in the capture of the harbor of Livorno on the night of 8/9 September ?
Zitat von: Darius am 22 Februar 2020, 20:37:08
--/>/> Chronik der 11. Räumbootflottille (https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,29933.msg338001.html#msg338001)
In dem Buch gibt es keinen Hinweis auf das Geschehen in Rapallo und der Bucht.
:MG:
Darius
R.189/199/201/215 was 15 miles from Livorno in Watch position. Early morning near Gorgona they see 2 escaping boates, chased them and finally destroyed on beach in unnamed bay. It was as germans thought, MAS-boats. Then another 2 MAS- and 3 "it. R-boote" was chased. More speedy MAS's escaped, but other 3 captured. Finally 3 it. MFP was also captured and escorted to Livorno by 09.00.
No signs of any captured ships by 11 R-Flottille at 14.9.43 in KTB.
Zitat von: igor am 25 Februar 2020, 07:17:11
Finally 3 it. MFP was also captured and escorted to Livorno by 09.00.
No signs of any captured ships by 11 R-Flottille at 14.9.43 in KTB.
Igor: An welchem Tag wurden um 09.00 Uhr 3 it. MFP erbeutet und eingebracht ?
Gruß, Thomas
Hi Thomas!
All things happen at 09.09.43.
Hi Igor!
According to war diary 11th R-Flottilla the encounters only began at 13:35. Where does 09:00 come from?
Mea culpa!
At KTB for R.212, where all details listed, first digit in first column not seen. I have time for R-boote's exit from Livorno (04.30, from R.212's Gefechtbericht) and think that all happen at morning. Can't see 12.30 at Gefechtbericht as time for first encounter.
Sorry all.
No problem. Your input is always welcomed. :TU:)
Hi guys,
I didn´t read Dark Navy: The Italian Regia Marina and the Armistice of 8 September 1943 (https://www.amazon.de/Dark-Navy-Italian-Armistice-September/dp/1934840912) till now - maybe I should?
Regards & :MG:
Darius