Information decrypted from German radio message, so I don`t know what was the original word for `Lighter`
``10.04.1945: Lighter `Ursula` sunk while on passage from steamship Minden to Hela as a result of bomb damage.Cargo of ammunition lost.``
What kind of `ship` Ursula was? Lighter in english is kind of barge. She was on passage so I presume that she have had her own propulsion....I`m looking for any other information of Ursula, especially the dimensions....
Yes, the german word is "Leichter" which is a kind of barge.
I suppose, it might have been "B 19 Pmot" = Ursula.
Pendant Nummer comes from "Operation Seelöwe" (1940) and means B for harbour Boulogne (planned departure for landing operation), Pmot means "Prahm, motorisiert".
In German we are using the word "Leichter" for harbour works (to empty a freightship = leichtern), and the word "Prahm" für inshore freight ships (Binnenfrachtschiffe), the french word is "Peniche".
Unfortunartely Gröner (DDK) does not provide many informations:
owner has been E. Zeitz, Hamburg. launched 1929, 514 tdw (Ladetonne).
Best regards, Thomas
There is a wreck in the area mentioned in radio message, where Ursula supposed to sank. And the wreck looks like a motorised barge , or landing craft, and as TW wrote, B 19 Pmot-Ursula was planned for landing operation. That makes sens to me.
You guys are great.Thanks!!!!
(https://scontent.fmxp5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/101569229_243708563557879_8963254012656746496_n.png?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=Ya7yAziIbWAAX-HBtvs&_nc_ht=scontent.fmxp5-1.fna&oh=2d7059d27899a4a42600c5490f3cb742&oe=5EF7B9CE)
Motorgüterschiff URSULA
1929, Wilmink, Groningen (aus 158, 161 – 162, 165 – 166) / 299,55 t Tgf.; 120 PSe; 41,5 m L., 5,04 m B.
erb. f. Ernst Zeitz, Hamburg; 1936 250 PSe; 194. Kriegsmarine f. ,,Seelöwe", B 19 P mot
Leider kann ich das Schiff augenblicklich keiner konkreten Bau-Nr. zuordnen. Besitzt jemand die Wilmink-Bauliste? Im Schiffahrtsmuseum Rotterdam scheinen nur Fragmente zu existieren.
Wo liegt das Wrack genau?
BS
Hallo Zusammen,
nice to see that this topic comes up in the context of a specific ship. I have seen this side scan image on this Website:
https://wrakibaltyku.pl/de/wraki/88,desantowiec-88.html
The text on the website does not provide a specific name of the vessel, it is just called landing craft. The length of the hull is estimated at 50m. The position of the wreck is listed as 54°35'12"N, 18°46'12"E, which is west of the southern tip of the Hel peninsula.
Offshore - I'd be really interested to get to know in which context you found the side scan image and how you linked it with the ship name Ursula. The radio message which you quoted does not provide much detail... would be great if we can find a strong link between the radio message, Ursula, and the side scan image. Thank you Offshore!
Best regards,
Ralf
see also here:
https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,30066.0.html
Best regards,
Ralf
Eben noch einige militärische Daten dazu:
1940: Erfasst für das "Unternehmen Seelöwe" und zu der Pionierwerft in Mannheim beordert.
Dort Frauen, Jugendliche unter 16 Jahren und Männer über 60 Jahre von Bord genommen.
Von den Pionieren die Baukennung 14/80 erhalten und zum Seelöweprahm umgebaut.
09.1940 nach Boulogne geschickt und die Kennung B 19 Pmot ( Boulogne , Mototprahm) erhalten
27.09.1940 Von Boulogne nach Dieppe geschleppt.
03.09.1942 In Dieppe liegend der 18. Landungsflottille zugeteilt.
01.012.1942 Bereits in Le Havre bei der 18. Landungsflottille gemeldet.
Wann zur Ostsee gekommen ist zur Zeit noch unbekannt.
Weiterhin Frohe Pfingsten
Theo
Zitat von: hoch-am-wind am 31 Mai 2020, 21:40:38
Offshore - I'd be really interested to get to know in which context you found the side scan image and how you linked it with the ship name Ursula. The radio message which you quoted does not provide much detail… would be great if we can find a strong link between the radio message, Ursula, and the side scan image. Thank you Offshore!
Hi Ralf,
I just use the deduction.So far I was able to 100% identify over 20 wrecks in the Baltic Sea.I spent a lot of time and money for archival queries, but non of the documents will tell us where the wreck is, we just receive some traces to follow.The rest is research in situ and deduction.I run non-profit association called: Underwater Heritage. The idea is to put all the stories of the wrecks I identified in one place, so anyone who`s interested in, could familiarize with them.Some of the stories already added, some are waiting and another just have to be discovered....
So far it is only in polish, in the future will be in english as well:
https://www.podwodnedziedzictwo.pl/
https://www.facebook.com/Podwodne-Dziedzictwo-817189241980340/?ref=settings
So back to our question and what the document says:
``Lighter URSULA sunk off the southern tip of Hela while on passage from steamship MINDEN to Hela as a resoult of bomb damage.``
Only at 9/04/1945 there was heavy raid on Pillau and Hela. At Pillau damaged steamship SCHAWENBURG; VALE,ALBERT JENSEN,JULIUS,MENDOZA burnt out. UJ301 sank at Hela.The day before, 8/04/1945 FRANKEN and WEDEL were sunk off Hela. So at that condition MINDEN with supply of ammunition had to stay quite far away from the harbour Hela, for safety reason of course, as another air raids were expected.URSULA was used to unload the cargo and transfer it to the harbour or other units, but unfortunatly was sank on her way to Hela...
Now: The sea bed in that area was 100% covered with side scan sonar by Polish Hydrographic Office and no other wrack similar to what URSULA supposed to be was found.Additionally we know that URSULA was rebuild for landing craft, and there is a wreck of landing craft down there.....
Originally URSULA was 41,5 m L, 5,04 m B , but then was rebuilded for landing craft, so the lenght was most probably extended by the gate on the bow....
Maybe in the future I will do some scuba diving on that wrack and do the further research as well as proper mesurement, but so far we can be pretty sure that Desantowiec is a wreck of URSULA....
There was air strike SE Hela at 13.22 10.4.45 made by 24 Pe-2 from 12 GPBAP. They claimed as sunk merchant ship for 8000 t and one watch boat.
Hi Offshore,
I looked at your website - this is great work! It'll take me a while to review all of this with google translate, there is a lot of very interesting information for a diver like me... thank you!
One question: are your sonar images multi-beam images?
Again, great work, cudos for that!
Best regards,
Ralf
Theo, Thomas, BS,
Euch vielen Dank von meiner Seite für die Daten zur Ursula! Wieder eine Lücke gefüllt...
Viele Grüße,
Ralf
Thank You all for sharing your knowledge. Another history puzzle solved.
Best regards,
Mike.
Zitat von: igor am 01 Juni 2020, 08:37:32
There was air strike SE Hela at 13.22 10.4.45 made by 24 Pe-2 from 12 GPBAP. They claimed as sunk merchant ship for 8000 t and one watch boat.
Hello igor,
thank you for this addition.
Are there maybe any photographs made by the attackers?
:MG:
Darius
Sorry Darius, i have no photos.
Umbau genau:
Kommandeur der Bautruppen 14, daher auch die Kennung 14/ in der Umbaunummer.
26.08.1940 von Mannheim Richtung Küste ausgelaufen.
Wir haben ja Alles, aber wo ?
Eine schöne Woche
Theo