U Boote patrols in the Mediterranean Sea

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm trying to apprecitae the rate of effciency of the German submarines in the Mediterranean Sea between Sept. 1941 and Sept. 1943 (or, maybe, Sept. 1944).

Is available the number of patrols made by the boats and, perhaps, the number of torpedoes they launched?

  Greetings

   Enrico

[t-geronimo]

The number of patrols should be no problem with some handwork.
Uboat.net has a list of all boats that were deployed mediterranean sea.  http://www.uboat.net/ops/mediterranean.htm
You "just" have to go through the detail pages of these boats and count the patrols after being sent into the med.

I wonder if the number of torpedoes being launched would be available without access to the war diaries of the concerning boats.

[Enrico Cernuschi]

It's 399, i.e. 0,15 patrol monthly for any U Boot between Sept. 1941 and Sept. 1944.

       Enrico

[Urs Heßling]

hello, Enrico,

It's 399, i.e. 0,15 patrol monthly for any U Boot between Sept. 1941 and Sept. 1944.

Do I understand correctly that the average ratio for all Mediterranean boats between time at sea in the Med and time total in the Med was 1:6,6 ?

That seems to be pretty low, at least, lower than I expected.

greetings, Urs

[Enrico Cernuschi]

(399 patrols : 62 -total number of U Boote in the Med.- ) : 36 months - Sept. 1941 - Sept. 1944 - = 0,17 monthly patrols for submarine.

This is a general media, of course.

The Italian submarines numbers are 2.668 Mediterranean patrols for 150 boats during 39 months between June 1940 and Sept. 1943 (Source of the datas "Dati statistici", by the Ufficio Storico della Marina Militare, Rome, 1972).

    Enrico   

[Urs Heßling]

hello, Enrico,

(399 patrols : 62 -total number of U Boote in the Med.- ) : 36 months - Sept. 1941 - Sept. 1944 - = 0,17 monthly patrols for submarine.

I strongly disagree - that is mathematically faulty !

You have to add up the individual months in the Med for each single boat, e.g.
- U 95 - 0 months (5 days), U 433 - 0 months (2 days)
U 79 - 3 months
U 81 - 25 months, U 453 - 30 months, U 565 - 34 months (possibly the max.)

then you arrive at a mathematically correct average monthly patrol quota (which I presume to be near 1.0)

greetings, Urs

[Platon Alexiades]

Hello Enrico,

Your calculation method is not quite correct:
My DB shows 318 German U-boat patrols in the Med, I do not claim this number is absolutely correct as some patrols were interrupted because of defects and one could argue that they should not be counted. For your calculation to be correct, you would have to assume that the 62 boats started operating in September 1941 and all finished in September 1944, this is incorrect as they entered the Mediterranean some of them as late as 1944 and some were sunk after one or two patrols.

I do not think it is possible to compare adequately. German patrols were usually much longer than those of Italian U-boats, German boats were all front line boats while a number of Italian boats were used for training.

You are quoting Data Statistici of USMM, but their list concerns "Missioni di Guerra" but this includes also movements between Italian ports and not only war patrols.
For example: ASCIANGHI is listed with 47 missions (she was lost on her 22nd patrol). Also a number of patrols were defensive patrols, usually lasting one night in front of an important base.

As far as torpedoes fired by U-boats in the Med:
My Database shows German U-boats: 1482 torpedoes fired with 202 hits (13.63%). This data is not perfect and is being adjusted all the time by corrections but it should be substantially good.

For Axis forces, the Mediterranean Theatre was a very difficult Theatre and Dönitz was very reluctant to send his U-boats. I think it was calculated that an ace in the Med would be expected to sink 1/3 of what he could do in the Atlantic. For example OL Horst-Arno Fenski does not make the list but I believe he should be considered as one of the great U-boat aces, yet he has about 40,000 ton sunk.

Italian submarines equally had a difficult time, one can see that their Betasom counterparts had (relatively) a much easier time in the Atlantic and sank a disproportionate number of ships with a smaller number of units than their Mediterranean counterpart. A number of Italian submarines in the Med were already showing some age and the noise they made proved to be a great handicap while German U-boats were all new so one cannot make a fair comparison.

Best regards,

Platon

(399 patrols : 62 -total number of U Boote in the Med.- ) : 36 months - Sept. 1941 - Sept. 1944 - = 0,17 monthly patrols for submarine.

This is a general media, of course.

The Italian submarines numbers are 2.668 Mediterranean patrols for 150 boats during 39 months between June 1940 and Sept. 1943 (Source of the datas "Dati statistici", by the Ufficio Storico della Marina Militare, Rome, 1972).

    Enrico   

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Hello Platon,

we meet again about the same matter. May I ask which are your sources about the number of torpedoes launched (I presume between Sept. 1941 and Sept. 1944) ?

My purpose was to have a general data and the result confirms the short life of the U Boats in the Med. To use the title of a famous American book about PT published on 1943 "They were expendable".

    Greetings

      Enrico
   

[Peter K.]

Here are the results of my own calculations, which I made some times ago:

Between 21.09.1941 (arrival of U-371) and 24.9.1944 (loss of U-565 and U-596) there were 63 different German submarines in the Mediterranean Sea, where they spent 17.266 days.
So the average "life" of each sub was 274 days - U-433 and U-340 survived only 2 days, but U-565 remarkable 1.044 days.

All boats together made 330 war patrols with 6.761 days at sea.
So each war patrol took an average of a bit more than 20 days and each boat made just over 5 war patrols with 107 days at sea.

The German subs spent more than 39 % of their time in the Mediterranean Sea on war patrols!

[Peter K.]

During each of the 37 months an average of 12-13 subs (minimum 1 in 07/44, maximum 24 in 12/41) were on war patrols and spent about 182-183 days (minimum 3 in 07/44, maximum 364 in 12/41).

[Urs Heßling]

salve, P.a.

Here are the results of my own calculations, which I made some times ago:
...
The German subs spent more than 39 % of their time in the Mediterranean Sea on war patrols!

that looks mathematically sound 

greetings, Urs


P.S. so U 565 was the scorer, indeed (I was too optimistic with my near "1.0", however, near 0.5 would have been more appropriate)

[Peter K.]

U-565 was also the boat, which spent the most time at sea - exactly 490 days.
It was followed by U-81 with 354 days, U-371 with 352 days and U-431 with 321 days during war patrols.

... compare this with the average value of 107 days!

[Peter K.]

During their Mediterranean engagement German subs sunk 150 merchant ships and auxiiliary warships with 509.753 GRT and 42 warships with 139.949 ts, which means an average per day at sea of only 75 GRT and 21 ts!

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Hello Peter K.,

you said 63 U boote in the mediterranean Sea. I have got 62:

U 73, 74, 75, 77, 79, 81, 83, 95, 97
U 133
U 205, 223, 224, 230, 259
U 301, 303, 331, 343, 371, 372, 374, 375, 380
U 407, 409, 410, 414, 421, 431, 433, 443, 450, 453, 455, 458, 466, 471
U 557, 559, 561, 562, 565, 568, 573, 577, 586, 593, 595, 596
U 602, 605, 616, 617, 642, 652, 660
U 755
U 952, 960, 967, 969

Which one did I miss?

    Enrico

[Peter K.]

U-340 is missing!

It break through the strait of Gibraltar on 1.11.1943, but was lost the next day.