Identifizierung einer Kessel

[MAXMAX]

Hallo,

I'm new on this forum. I'm sorry, I don't speak German correctly. A friend of mine dived on a shipwreck  near Lorient. On the boiler, he found a builder plate where one can read, with the serial number :

D.G. Holmes u. C°
Hull 1907
11 gkUbd
Massz : 24cm

AFAIK D.G. Holmes & Co (not D. C. Holmes & Co)  was a British machines and boilers builder from Hull or Grimsby, on Humber river. They mainly built for trawlers and whalers.
You easily guess that the boiler was built in 1907.

The curiosity is the fact that despite Holmes was a British manufacturer, the words appear to be written in German, probably because the boiler (or the whole ship) was for exportation, perhaps for a German owner.
Can you confirm it is German written and, in your opinion, what do "gkUbd" and "Massz" stand for ? I imagine that  "gkUbd" might be a pressure unity like pound/square inch in the imperial system or kg/cm² in the metric one. "Massz" could be a transcription for German Maß due to the lack of missing characters for the eszet.

Thanks a lot for your help
BR
MAX

[Karsten]

Hello,

welcome to our Forum. Writing in English is fine as many members read, speak and write in English!

the words appear to be written in German

How do you come to this conclusion?

“Massz” could be a transcription for German Maß due to the lack of missing characters for the eszet.

I agree with this.

Regards,

Karsten

[MAXMAX]

Hello Karsten,

Thanks for welcoming.

How do you come to this conclusion?

Indeed "D.G. Holmes u. C°" in English would be "D.G. Holmes & C°". Here the "u." probably stands for "und". Also "gkUbd" and "Massz" sound German but I'm perhaps wrong.

BR,
MAX

[Elektroheizer]

Hello and welcome

Massz : 24cm: 24 centimeters in this case are strange. I think this stands for cubic-Meters, if the boiler has the right size.

11 gkUbd: Pressure would be plausible here, but I don´t have any idea what this could be. Older german units are written totaly different, also imperial units known to me. I suppose your friend is from France, is it possible that he did read something wrong? Old weathered letters with fouling, bad sight, and when someone does not have the right "feeling" for a language, such a mistake can happen easily.

[MAXMAX]

Hallo Elektroheizer,

24 cubic-meters is a good idea because a volume is a more useful detail than a length on such an equipment ! I'll ask my friend if he knows the dimensions of the boiler. He and I are French people, I had not specified this point.
Nevertheless the case the boiler would fit a German ship, the volume unit would have been indicated as "km" for Kubikmeter. Perhaps the boiler was not for a German spoken country. The case the manufacturer would have used a local unit, he would more probably have used an imperial unit like cubic feet.
I'm trying to join a photo of the plate, just hope I succeeded. You'll then have a better idea of the letters and perhaps it will be more intuitive for a non French.

Older german units are written totaly different

Do you think to Sütterlin ?

BR,
MAX

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Hallo Elektroheizer,

24 cubic-meters is a good idea because a volume is a more useful detail than a length on such an equipment ! I'll ask my friend if he knows the dimensions of the boiler. He and I are French people, I had not specified this point.
Nevertheless the case the boiler would fit a German ship, the volume unit would have been indicated as "km" for Kubikmeter.

Not really:
km = Kilometer
cbm (or m³)= Kubikmeter.

[Jong]

Are there dots on the U ?

Maybe  Übd  --> Überdruck - excess pressure ?


Jong

[MAXMAX]

Hey Jong, you're totally right : there is an Umlaut regarding the U ! Überdruck would be a good identification. Elektroheizer was right too, when someone does not have the right "feeling" for a language...
By the way, one could imagine that the gk at the beginning of kgÜbd might have been an inversion between both letters and would be kg for kilogrammes ? But that's only a personal idea.
MAX

[Elektroheizer]

Older german units are written totaly different

Do you think to Sütterlin ?

No, but you are good! Sütterlin was a font mainly used written or printed on paper, never (or rarely) on machine plates. I did not mean the font, but the letters . For example mWS = metersWasser-Säule. Or ATÜ = Atmosphäre Überdruck, excess pressure. This corresponds to what Jong wrote and you assumed then. But in this case, the unit is not correct. "24 kg" refers to a force, the area is missing for measuring a pressure. Strange...

[MAXMAX]

Yes, kg refers to a force and I was thinking to kg/cm² for instance but that was just a bad supposition because it would mean that "kg" was written with swaped letters. Moreover the unit wouldn't be complete because there are no reference to a surface.

[Baron]

Hello MAXMAX,
sorry, but my english is not good enough, so I must explain it in german, may be, another Person will translate it.
Ich bin Boilerexperte und habe viele auch uralte Kessel gesehen. Meine Erklärung: Der englische Hersteller wurde von seinem deutschen Auftraggeber verpflichtet, wegen der damals und heute noch existierenden Vorschriften, das Kesselschild in deutsch zu prägen. Und damit hatte er dann seine Schwierigkeiten. Die Druckangabe hätte heißen müssen: 11 Kg/cm² Überdr.(uck) Die Quadratzentimeter hat ganz weggelassen und Kg hat er verdreht. Die Bezeichnung Überdruck statt nur Druck war schon sehr fortschrittlich, denn nur "Druck" heißt absoluter Druck gegen Vakuum, und der interessiert an Bord  den Praktiker überhaupt nicht. "24" ist etwas rätselhaft. Es könnte der Wasserinhalt sein: 24 Kubikmeter. Der wurde bei Großwasserraumkesseln schon mal angegeben. Es könnte aber auch die Heizfläche sein. 24 Quadratmeter. Auch die Heizfläche wurde gelegentlich angegeben.
Druck X Wasserinhalt ist ein wichtiger (der entscheidende)  Richtwert für das Gefahrenpotenzial eines Dampfkessels.
Gruß
Baron

[MAXMAX]

Hallo Baron,
Vielen Dank für Ihre Erläuterungen. Ich spreche nicht viel Deutsch, aber ich kann ein wenig zu lesen.
ll get in touch with my friend in order to know if he knows the dimensions (length + diameter) of this boiler. It could light us regarding the "24" m², m3 or something else.
Is 11 bar for max pressure a consistent or reliable value regarding a 1907 boiler ?
Best regards,
MAX

[Peter K.]

Is 11 bar for max pressure a consistent or reliable value regarding a 1907 boiler ?

Yes, it is!