German Sonar

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Hello Gentlemen,

may someone tell me which were the datas (range, frequency ect.) of the German ASDIC in 1939-1941?

  Thank you

     EC

[t-geronimo]

This article is primarily about the sound device "Gruppenhorchgerät" GHG.
I've never read it completly but maybe it also contains some of the data you are looking for because other devices are mentioned?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/GHG1996.pdf

[Peter K.]

Unfortunately this great article mentioned by T-G covers only passive sound devices, of which the German GHG is quite well known.

Due to ENRICO´s formulation "German Asdic" I assume, that he is looking for data of the active German sound devices, like S-Gerät, SH-Gerät, SF-Gerät, SKH-Gerät, SKF-Gerät, SH-Mob-Gerät, SN-Gerät, etc.

[OWZ]

 Here are some basic facts from GIESSLER, H., "Der Marine-Nachrichten u. Ortungsdienst", S.108:

The "S-Anlage" (=activ detection like Asdic/Sonar) works on 5 Kw with 20msec impulsduration. It could detect a sub from a sailing destroyer under good conditions between 3 and 5 km. A submarine was able therewith to detect a mine about 1 km with good "echo-weather".

Hope that helps a bit ...

OWZ

[Enrico Cernuschi]

It's almost everything I needed, thank you very much guys, even if 4-5 km is huge; the British ASDIC could grasp at best 1.000 meters and the Italian SAFAR P 600 which was considered in 1941 as good as the German S Gerat device, touched 1.200 meters in good condictions. Anything about the goniometric error?
 
    EC

[Peter K.]

During the first years of war the SH-Mob-Gerät was one of the most important active sound devices, quickly developped from the experimental SH-Gerät at the end of 1939. This manually operated device was useable for surface ships and submarines and over 1.500 devices of various series were produced between 1940 and 1942.

power: 5 kW
impulse frequency: 15 kHz
impulse duration 20 ms
time between two impulses: 3,14 s or 6,28 s or individual
corresponding range scales: 0-2.000 m or 2.000-4.300 m or more then 4.300 m (depending on water temperature, salt density, waves, thermal layers, etc.)

GIESSLER and also KÜHNHOLD quoted the following ranges under ideal conditions:
- from a submerged submarine with low speed against larger surface ships 5.000 - 10.000 m
- from a destroyer sailing with 10 - 12 kts against a submarine 3.000 - 5.000 m
SCHMALENBACH mentioned the bearing accuracy with 2°, WHITLEY with 1°.
WHITLEY quoted the range accuracy with 1%.

The power operated counterpart of the SH-Gerät, the SF-Gerät, was of less importance and no data are available about it.

Since 1942 a combination of an active SH- or SF-Gerät and a passive Kristalldrehbasisgerät (KDB-Gerät) was produced in larger numbers, mainly for sub chasers. They were called SKH- and SKF-Gerät and had an effective range of about 1.000 m. The bearing accuracy of the KDB-Gerät alone was 3-4°.

sources:
Eberhard Rössler, Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen Uboote
Eberhard Rössler, Geschichte des deutschen Ubootbaus, Band 1
Eberhard Möller, Kurs Atlantik
Manfred Krellenberg, Uboot-Jagd im Mittelmeer
Helmuth Giessler, Der Marine-Nachrichten- und Ortungsdienst
Paul Schmalenbach, Schwerer Kreuzer Prinz Eugen
M.J. Whitley, Die deutschen Zerstörer im 2. Weltkrieg

[SchlPr11]

Vom SchlPr.11:
I have another inportant source of S-Gerät and for Seetakt-Geräten:

Harry von Kroge
GEMA-BERLIN
Geburtsstätte der deutschen aktiven Wasserschall- und Funkortungstechnik
1998 by Harry von Kroge
ISBN 3-00-002865-x

Reinhard

[Peter K.]

Danke, REINHARD!

Ich kannte bisher nur die englische Ausgabe:

Harry Von Kroge, Louis Brown,
Gema: Birthplace of German Radar and Sonar
2000, ISBN 9780750307321

Wo kann man die deutsche Ausgabe beziehen?

[SchlPr11]

Vom SchlPr.11:
Konnte mir das Buch 1998 in HH zulegen und war mächtig stolz darauf. Es ist leider wenig beachtet, irgendwie am deutschen Markt vorbei geschlittert. Ganz das Gegenteil jenseits des Kanals....
Nachdem sich jetzt bei uns im Gröner-Kreis ein Interesse regte, habe ich über Umwege einen Kontakt zum Autor und Herausgeber gefunden und kann diesen gerne bei Interesse per PM weitervermitteln.
Reinhard

[OWZ]

Gröner-Kreis? - Dr. Schenk etc.? 

OWZ

[Peter K.]

@REINHARD
Gerne nehme ich dein Angebot an und bitte um Bekanntgabe per PN! 

[SchlPr11]

Vom SchlPr.11:
Für OWZ und alle Freunde hier eine Gröner-Runde um Dr. Peter Schenk als Schnittmenge der gerade Anwesenden des sog. Gröner-Kreises.
Vorne vlnr: Dieter Thomeier, Berndt Wenzel, Norbert Kelling, Reinhard Kramer
dahinter gleichfalls von links: Dr. Joachim Walter, Dr. Axel Niestlé, Dr. Detlef Ruhland, Dr. Peter Schenk, Werner Kähling und Dr. Günther Meyer.
Im Hintergrund wieder links: Erich Gröner
Schönen Abend - Reinhard

[OWZ]

 Man sieht doch gleich, dass es sich nicht um irgendeine Shantie-Combo handelt.

- Tolles, durch das Bild von Gröner im Hintergrund schon beinahe magisches Photo.

Vielen Dank für die Teilhabe

OWZ

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Thank you, Gentlemen, for such a full answer. Marinearchiv uber alles, uber alle in die welt.

     EC

[kalli]

Ich nehme stark an, dass sich das GEMA-Buch morgen in meinen Händen befindet