:MG:
Possible scenar with Renown April 9th 1940
The Baltic Squadron is discover by Renown -5h05am
The cruiser, in front of the German Fleet line receives first the 15" splashes-5h16-distance 16500m
The cruiser retreat near the middle PBB.
The PBB are not disappointed because they had much tested battle tactics since many years; a battle with a slower BB, a faster BB...
The tactical is to disperse the 3PBB, every PBB operate individually.
Renown making 23kts in the storm, open fire on VdT, in the middle of the German line
All PBB return fire. Speed 16 to 20 kts
Std21 (3T3x28cm), first of the German line go ahead
VdT - Admiral Lutjens (2T2x38cm), second in the line make a complete circle & follow Std21.
Std20 (3T2x38cm) third in the line make a turn over & operate on opposite side.
Hits
On Std21, tower rangefinder out - 5h21
On Renown near the mast
On Renown deck boat
On Std20, aft 38cm turret out
On Renown bridge, main rangefinder out
On Renown hull
On Std20, deck boat & diesels, serious fire, speed slow down to 16kts
On Renown funnel
On Renown bow
On Renown A turret, turret out
On Std21 bow, serious damage
On Renown hull
On Renown turbine, speed slow down to 20kts
On Std21 aft deck
On Renown deck boat, serious fire
On Renown bridge
On Renown aft turret, turret out - distance about 10000 to 12000m
Torpedoes lauch made by PBB. No result in the storm
On Renown, hit, on deck
On Renown, fore part of hull
With 2 turrets, 1 turbine out, great fire on deck boat, Admiral Withworth order retreat.
On Renown, 2 more hits during retreat
German PBB ceased fire when Renown disappears south at 21kts- 6h41
-----------------------------
The tactical is to disperse the enemy fire, so, 1 or 2 PBB are quiet to fire.
When the enemy is well hammered & his speed slow down, 2 torpedoes launch are made by the PBB.
--------------------
Harold, I have changed the scenar because, I think that in the storm, the torpedoes could n't maintain the right direction.
With better sea condition, PBB could make accurate torpedoes lauch & ...certainly sink Renown
Jef :MG:
Sounds like la Plata in the North Sea. The storms have the mission to slow especially RENOWN down. There are some questions occuring nevertheless:
1.: Aren´t the German ships slowed down considerably as well?
2.: How about a reduced fighting capability of Anton turrets on the German ships?
3.: What´s each others optical range and how are secondary weapons are about to come into action?
Cheers
Lt
...and, in addition, also would be great if we could give distances, plotted courses and timeframes as we had done, some years ago, with the LaPlata-thread.
Huszar is our man for the gambling rules ... so why not to start some parallel to this old thread?
And yes, my cruiser design question is still open...
Interesting alternatives!
Ciao,
Harold
Jefgte, how did you get the number of hits and the damage they made?
Leutenan Werner wrote:
"
1.: Aren´t the German ships slowed down considerably as well?
2.: How about a reduced fighting capability of Anton turrets on the German ships?
3.: What´s each others optical range and how are secondary weapons are about to come into action?
"
1 : I think that the PBB speed is from 16 to 20kts.
2 : Fighting A turret is rythmes by the movement of the ship (that is the single possibility).
3 : All my PBB use 2x10.5 rangefinder.
when the main on the tower is destroyed the aft, secondary begin the main.
No problem, the fire is made by boardside. Just the 150mm fire in action - I think that the minimal distance was 10000m
British DD & German TB fire together.
T Geronimo wrote:
"how did you get the number of hits and the damage they made?"
The first hits are the same as the Battle with S & G (Aft Gneisenau turret was knockout, so aft Std 20 turret too).... the others, by experience - hit by hit are personnal estimation.
-------------------
Without storm, in normal sea , 2 torpedoes lauchs (2x16) made 2x2 hits. Renown went to the seabed.
Vdt receive 1 hit in the bulge by destroyer.
Jef :MG:
:MG:
I rewrite a possible scenario with Renown April 9th 1940...
Forces in presence:
British – Battle cruiser Renown, with 9 Destroyers - Admiral Withworth
German – The complet Baltic Squadron; 3 Pocket Baltic Battleships – 1 light cruiser – 6 TorpedoBoots – Admiral Marshall on Von der Tann
5.05am - The Baltic Squadron steaming at 16kts course 140° is discovering by Renown.
The cruiser, 1 mile ahead in front of the German Fleet line receives first the 15" splashes. The distance is 16500m.
The cruiser turns towards to the Admiral battleship in the middle of the German line.
The cruiser reported the presence of a battleship and destroyers steering 200°. Renown making 23kts in the storm, open fire on Std21, at the left of the German line at 5.08. Without possibility to escape, Admiral Marshal orders the deployment of the pocket battleships line for the tactical "1 battleship engagement by the left". At 5.10, Baltic Squadron begins the deployment. At 5.14, all pocket battleships now in tactical position return the fire. Speed during deployment was16kts to 20kts.
The German battleships take their positions, Std21 (3T3x28cm), right of the German line go ahead at 18kts. Von der Tann - (2T2x38cm), in the middle of the line make a complete circle & follow Std21. Std20 (3T2x38cm) left in the line operate on opposite side with the light cruiser.
During the movement, Renown scored one hit on Std 21 at 5.16 near the t op of the tower. The main range finder & some optical material are damaged. At the same moment, a 11" shell from Std 21 hit Renown near the mast making light damage. Renown, now steering 60° is hit again by a 15" shell at 5.18, this shell, probably from Std20 hit the lifeboats near the second funnel & a fire begin in the middle of the battle cruiser. Distance is now about 12000m. The British Battle cruiser identifies correctly the pocket battleships and switches her fire to Std20, the most powerful german pocket battleship. Shortly later, at 5h23, the range is correctly obtained & the battlecruiser makes a hit on the aft 38cm turret, making the turret out of action. Std 20 altered course to port before turning together to 110° at 5.26.
Due to the poor visibility by snow, fire cease for a few minutes. However, at 5.29, Renown is hit on the bridge, probably by a 11" shell fire at 12850m by Std21, this shell destroyed the t op range finder. Study 20 with her 15" guns is now masked by the snow, so Renown switch her fire to Std21, At 5.30, This pocket battleship making 16kts, is now relatively clear in west at about 12700m. Before obtain the right range, Renown is hit again by a 11" shell near the bow.
The Renown's first salvo was about 300yds short, the 2nd straddled, at 5.32, the 3rd hit the pocket battleship in the middle, on deck boat. The shell passed through the 80mm armour deck & explodes in the aft starboard diesel room. The diesel is partially destroyed and a serious fire occurred, speed slow down to 14kts.The ship turn over and make screen smoke. Shortly later, Von der Tann reopens fire on Renown and obtains a 15" hit on Renown's funnel at 5h35. Apparently, some 5"9 shells from the cruiser or Von der Tann hits also Renown during this period. The 5"9 turrets of Von der Tann are use to help the 15" guns in range. At 5.38, the German admiral pocket battleship score a 15" hit at 11840m on A turret, putting the turret out of action.
The British Cruiser altered course & continue to hammer Std 21. At 5.40, Std21 is hit in the bow at about 12000m. The shell made serious damage in the bow. Some compartments were flooded. Her draught forward increases by 2'.
At 5.43, Std20 reopen fire on Renown at 10750m & makes a hit on the forecastle.
Von der Tann hit also Renown in a turbine room at 5.44. The turbine was damaged & stopped. Speed of the British BC decrease to 20kts.
Distance between the German pocket battleships & Renown is now about 11000m.
British destroyers & German torpedo boats fire some times during this period; a torpedo boat was slightly damage by a hit on the funnel.
Std21 is hit again at 5.46 on the aft deck, some officers's cabins are destroyed.
The visibility is now better. All pocket battleships are firing on the British battlecruiser. The 3 German ships outgunned the Renown & obtain 2 hits at 5.48 one hit a life boat & explode in the hangar, serious fire begin in the middle, one other 11" hit the 2nd port 5"25 turret, destroying the turret.
At 5.52, on Renown, aft turret is damaged by an other hit probably a 15"which put the turret out of action.
Std 20 Captain think that Renown with 2 turrets out of action & a reduce speed is now in defeat condition. He orders to hoist the flag"ready for 1 torpedo launch". Von Der Tann answers at 5.54.
2 minutes later, at 5.56, manoeuvring to be in good position, all pocket battleships launch 16 torpedoes to the Renown at 11000m & then, turn over at 20kts to escape the British Destroyers reactions
Renown firing with B turret only altered course to port before turning together to 220° at 5.58.
During the torpedo launch, Renown receives 1 more hit, a 15" on the forecastle. At 6.02 a 11" hit the belt. The amour was slightly driven and the hull plating bulged in, but no very serious damage was done, though the wings immediately below the amour were flooded for a length of c60ft.
3 British destroyers were in good position & launch torpedoes to Von der Tann at 5.59. Without effect due to the bad sea & the turn over of the pocket battleship. Von der Tann searchlights and bridge were damaged by shells from destroyers during this action.
6.05 - With 2 turrets & 1 turbine damaged, important fire in hangar & deck boat, about 500tons water in the hull Admiral Withworth order retreat.
On Renown, 2 more hits were obtain during retreat, a 15" near the aft rangefinder and an 11" near the stern without serious effect.
Torpedoes launch by pocket battleships made no result in the storm.
German Baltic Squadron ceased completely fire when Renown disappears south at 23kts-6.16
Jef :MG:
Hallo Jefgate!
This is a very interesting Scenario, we spoke about it very often on our Italy-tour. Unfortunately, I saw it one day before departure, so I could not write and make statements earlier.
I would like to play it through with the improved la-Plata-rules (with some hlep from Harold, of course), what I need to this is following:
- drawings of your projects (side and above), best with the inner arrangements (mashines, magazines, etc)
- the thickness and position of the armour
- if it is possible, a drawing from the begining of the battle, with positions of the ships and the ranges.
you can send the data to Harold or me per e-mail.
best regards
alex
:MG:
During my holydays, I made 3 drawings of the battle.
I made them just by memory without any drawing model.
I think that they are not too bad...
Here they are:
...at 5h23, the range is correctly obtained & the battlecruiser makes a hit on the aft 38cm turret, making the turret out of action.Std 20 altered course to port...
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/452/std20battlehw3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
...at 5.32, the 3rd hit the pocket battleship in the middle, on deck boat. The shell passed through the 80mm armour deck & explodes in the aft starboard diesel room. The diesel is partially destroyed and a serious fire occurred, speed slow down to 14kts...
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7875/std21battlefo4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
...3 British destroyers were in good position & launch torpedoes to Von der Tann at 5.59. Without effect due to the bad sea & the turn over of the pocket battleship. Von der Tann searchlights and bridge were damaged by shells from destroyers during this action.
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9118/vdtbattleju7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Jef :MG:
... great drawings, JEFGTE ! top
Zitat von: Jefgte am 26 Juli 2007, 11:30:31
:MG:
I rewrite the possible scenario with Renown April 9th 1940...
Forces in presence:
British – Battle cruiser Renown, with 9 Destroyers - Admiral Withworth
German – The complet Baltic Squadron; 3 Pocket Baltic Battleships – 1 light cruiser – 6 TorpedoBoots – Admiral Marshall on Von der Tann
5.05am - The Baltic Squadron steaming at 16kts course 140° is discovering by Renown.
The cruiser, 1 mile ahead in front of the German Fleet line receives first the 15" splashes. The distance is 16500m.
The cruiser turns towards to the Admiral battleship in the middle of the German line.
The cruiser reported the presence of a battleship and destroyers steering 200°. Renown making 23kts in the storm, open fire on Std20, at the left of the German line at 5.08. Without possibility to escape, Admiral Marshal orders the deployment of the pocket battleships line for the tactical "1 battleship engagement by the left". At 5.10, Baltic Squadron begins the deployment. At 5.14, all pocket battleships now in tactical position return the fire. Speed during deployment was16kts to 20kts.
The German battleships take their positions, Std20 (3T3x28cm), right of the German line go ahead at 18kts. Von der Tann - (2T2x38cm), in the middle of the line make a complete circle & follow Std20. Std21 (3T2x38cm) left in the line operate on opposite side with the light cruiser.
During the movement, Renown scored one hit on Std 20 at 5.16 near the t op of the tower. The main range finder & some optical material are damaged. At the same moment, a 11" shell from Std 20 hit Renown near the mast making light damage. Renown, now steering 60° is hit again by a 15" shell at 5.18, this shell, probably from Std21 hit the lifeboats near the second funnel & a fire begin in the middle of the battle cruiser. Distance is now about 12000m. The British Battle cruiser identifies correctly the pocket battleships and switches her fire to Std21, the most powerful german pocket battleship. Shortly later, at 5h23, the range is correctly obtained & the battlecruiser makes a hit on the aft 38cm turret, making the turret out of action. Std 21 altered course to port before turning together to 110° at 5.26.
Due to the poor visibility by snow, fire cease for a few minutes. However, at 5.29, Renown is hit on the bridge, probably by a 11" shell fire at 12850m by Std20, this shell destroyed the t op range finder. Study 21 with her 15" guns is now masked by the snow, so Renown switch her fire to Std20, At 5.30, This pocket battleship making 16kts, is now relatively clear in west at about 12700m. Before obtain the right range, Renown is hit again by a 11" shell near the bow.
The Renown's first salvo was about 300yds short, the 2nd straddled, at 5.32, the 3rd hit the pocket battleship in the middle, on deck boat. The shell passed through the 80mm armour deck & explodes in the aft starboard diesel room. The diesel is partially destroyed and a serious fire occurred, speed slow down to 14kts.The ship turn over and make screen smoke. Shortly later, Von der Tann reopens fire on Renown and obtains a 15" hit on Renown's funnel at 5h35. Apparently, some 5"9 shells from the cruiser or Von der Tann hits also Renown during this period. The 5"9 turrets of Von der Tann are use to help the 15" guns in range. At 5.38, the German admiral pocket battleship score a 15" hit at 11840m on A turret, putting the turret out of action.
The British Cruiser altered course & continue to hammer Std 20. At 5.40, Std20 is hit in the bow at about 12000m. The shell made serious damage in the bow. Some compartments were flooded. Her draught forward increases by 2'.
At 5.43, Std21 reopen fire on Renown at 10750m & makes a hit on the forecastle.
Von der Tann hit also Renown in a turbine room at 5.44. The turbine was damaged & stopped. Speed of the British BC decrease to 20kts.
Distance between the German pocket battleships & Renown is now about 11000m.
British destroyers & German torpedo boats fire some times during this period; a torpedo boat was slightly damage by a hit on the funnel.
Std20 is hit again at 5.46 on the aft deck, some officers's cabins are destroyed.
The visibility is now better. All pocket battleships are firing on the British battlecruiser. The 3 German ships outgunned the Renown & obtain 2 hits at 5.48 one hit a life boat & explode in the hangar, serious fire begin in the middle, one other 11" hit the 2nd port 5"25 turret, destroying the turret.
At 5.52, on Renown, aft turret is damaged by an other hit probably a 15"which put the turret out of action.
Std 21 Captain think that Renown with 2 turrets out of action & a reduce speed is now in defeat condition. He orders to hoist the flag"ready for 1 torpedo launch". Von Der Tann answers at 5.54.
2 minutes later, at 5.56, manoeuvring to be in good position, all pocket battleships launch 16 torpedoes to the Renown at 11000m & then, turn over at 20kts to escape the British Destroyers reactions
Renown firing with B turret only altered course to port before turning together to 220° at 5.58.
During the torpedo launch, Renown receives 1 more hit, a 15" on the forecastle. At 6.02 a 11" hit the belt. The amour was slightly driven and the hull plating bulged in, but no very serious damage was done, though the wings immediately below the amour were flooded for a length of c60ft.
3 British destroyers were in good position & launch torpedoes to Von der Tann at 5.59. Without effect due to the bad sea & the turn over of the pocket battleship. Von der Tann searchlights and bridge were damaged by shells from destroyers during this action.
6.05 - With 2 turrets & 1 turbine damaged, important fire in hangar & deck boat, about 500tons water in the hull Admiral Withworth order retreat.
On Renown, 2 more hits were obtain during retreat, a 15" near the aft rangefinder and an 11" near the stern without serious effect.
Torpedoes launch by pocket battleships made no result in the storm.
German Baltic Squadron ceased completely fire when Renown disappears south at 23kts-6.16
Jef :MG:
Zitat von: Jefgte am 20 Juli 2007, 12:54:34
:MG:
Possible scenar with Renown April 9th 1940
The Baltic Squadron is discover by Renown -5h05am
The cruiser, in front of the German Fleet line receives first the 15" splashes-5h16-distance 16500m
The cruiser retreat near the middle PBB.
The PBB are not disappointed because they had much tested battle tactics since many years; a battle with a slower BB, a faster BB...
The tactical is to disperse the 3PBB, every PBB operate individually.
Renown making 23kts in the storm, open fire on VdT, in the middle of the German line
All PBB return fire. Speed 16 to 20 kts
Std20 (3T3x28cm), first of the German line go ahead
VdT - Admiral Lutjens (2T2x38cm), second in the line make a complete circle & follow Std21.
Std21 (3T2x38cm) third in the line make a turn over & operate on opposite side.
Hits
On Std20, tower rangefinder out - 5h21
On Renown near the mast
On Renown deck boat
On Std21, aft 38cm turret out
On Renown bridge, main rangefinder out
On Renown hull
On Std21, deck boat & diesels, serious fire, speed slow down to 16kts
On Renown funnel
On Renown bow
On Renown A turret, turret out
On Std20 bow, serious damage
On Renown hull
On Renown turbine, speed slow down to 20kts
On Std20 aft deck
On Renown deck boat, serious fire
On Renown bridge
On Renown aft turret, turret out - distance about 10000 to 12000m
Torpedoes lauch made by PBB. No result in the storm
On Renown, hit, on deck
On Renown, fore part of hull
With 2 turrets, 1 turbine out, great fire on deck boat, Admiral Withworth order retreat.
On Renown, 2 more hits during retreat
German PBB ceased fire when Renown disappears south at 21kts- 6h41
-----------------------------
The tactical is to disperse the enemy fire, so, 1 or 2 PBB are quiet to fire.
When the enemy is well hammered & his speed slow down, 2 torpedoes launch are made by the PBB.
--------------------
Harold, I have changed the scenar because, I think that in the storm, the torpedoes could n't maintain the right direction.
With better sea condition, PBB could make accurate torpedoes lauch & ...certainly sink Renown
Jef :MG:
Oups!!!
Could not edit my posts to make corrections
:SO/( :MS:
:](*,) :/DK:
Editing is possible only for the first 48 hours after making a post due to security reasons. :MZ:
OK big Chief :MG:
Well, for uniformise the Designs Studies & 1/700 models with the battle,
Study 20 was 3T3x28cm the rebuilt was Study 21, 3T2x38cm
So, in the battle, reverse 20 & 21
The 2 groupes are now
Study 20 (3T3x28cm) is near Von der Tann
Study 21 (3T2x38cm) is with the K kreuzer
Jef :MG:
:MG:
The writting of the scenario & the design of the battle take about 3 hours.
Here is the scan of the battle
The points with H are Hits
The multiples small lines are the torpedoes lauch made by the Baltic Squadron
(http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/4669/photo001qr0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Von der Tann actualy in the Jefgte's Shipyards
Scale of the drawing: 1/700
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9581/photokw5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Std 20 &21 ( 'll be in the Jefgte's Shipyards from sept to dec) :MZ: :MZ:
Scale of the drawing: 1/700
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5199/photo002lc9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
:MZ: :MZ:
2 other scenarios are possible with the Baltic Squadron:
The Barentz sea Battle
The Cap North Battle
Jef :MG:
coooooool!
Now I know, what I will be do on weekend :-D
I hope, you have no problems with a "neutral" re-play :-D
alex
neutral replay... :SO/(
The Baltic Squadron is a homogeneous squadron, perfectly training to confront & defeat a battleship. an elite unit
so, sink the Renown Alex !!!
Jef :MG:
Here are the SpringSharp of the Pocket Battleships
---------------------------------
Von der Tann, Germany Baltic Pocket Battleship laid down 1929
Displacement:
11 299 t light; 11 890 t standard; 12 187 t normal; 12 424 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
554.46 ft / 544.62 ft x 68.90 ft x 22.51 ft (normal load)
169.00 m / 166.00 m x 21.00 m x 6.86 m
Armament:
6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (2x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
6 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4 776 lbs / 2 166 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 127
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.6" / 270 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 8.63 ft / 2.63 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 124.67 ft / 38.00 m 7.22 ft / 2.20 m
75.46 ft / 23.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 21.52 ft / 6.56 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.6" / 270 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 10.2" / 260 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 10.63" / 270 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 37 200 shp / 27 751 Kw = 24.85 kts
Range 2 000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 534 tons
Complement:
579 - 753
Cost:
£4.227 million / $16.910 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 597 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 4 622 tons, 37.9 %
- Belts: 1 403 tons, 11.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 432 tons, 3.5 %
- Armament: 836 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1 829 tons, 15.0 %
- Conning Tower: 121 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1 143 tons, 9.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 907 tons, 40.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 888 tons, 7.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 038 lbs / 7 728 Kg = 25.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7.71 ft / 2.35 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.34 ft / 7.42 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.78 ft / 5.42 m
- Mid (40 %): 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Stern: 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.1 %
Waterplane Area: 25 115 Square feet or 2 333 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Von der Tann, Germany Baltic Pocket Battleship laid down 1929
Rebuilt in 1937
Displacement:
13 297 t light; 14 000 t standard; 14 532 t normal; 14 958 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
560.24 ft / 544.62 ft x 68.90 ft (Bulges 82.16 ft) x 22.51 ft (normal load)
170.76 m / 166.00 m x 21.00 m (Bulges 25.04 m) x 6.86 m
Armament:
4 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (2x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
6 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (3x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (14 mounts in 1943), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7 547 lbs / 3 423 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 96
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.6" / 270 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 8.63 ft / 2.63 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 157.48 ft / 48.00 m 7.22 ft / 2.20 m
42.65 ft / 13.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
Bulkhead 40mm + Bulge 25mm
2.56" / 65 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 21.52 ft / 6.56 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.6" / 270 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 10.2" / 260 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 10.63" / 270 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 37 200 shp / 27 751 Kw = 24.03 kts
Range 3 500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 958 tons
(424 tons add in new tanks in the bulges)
Complement:
661 - 860
Cost:
£5.671 million / $22.685 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 943 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 5 032 tons, 34.6 %
- Belts: 1 417 tons, 9.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 702 tons, 4.8 %
- Armament: 947 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1 829 tons, 12.6 %
- Conning Tower: 136 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1 142 tons, 7.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 140 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 235 tons, 8.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 984 lbs / 8 157 Kg = 10.7 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7.71 ft / 2.35 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.34 ft / 7.42 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.78 ft / 5.42 m
- Mid (40 %): 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Stern: 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.9 %
Waterplane Area: 25 115 Square feet or 2 333 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 781 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
------------------------------------------------------------------
These 2 studies (20 & 21) are the ultimate development of my 1980 Panzerschiffes concept
---------------------------------------
Study20 - AXY-280, Germany Baltic Pocket Battleship laid down 1931
Displacement:
11 525 t light; 12 245 t standard; 12 605 t normal; 12 892 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
613.41 ft / 596.13 ft x 68.90 ft x 22.95 ft (normal load)
186.97 m / 181.70 m x 21.00 m x 7.00 m
Armament:
9 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
Main guns limited to end-on fire
16 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6 375 lbs / 2 892 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 130
16 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 433.07 ft / 132.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 124.67 ft / 38.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
38.39 ft / 11.70 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 439.63 ft / 134.00 m 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.69" / 170 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38 800 shp / 28 945 Kw = 25.31 kts
Range 2 500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 647 tons
Complement:
594 - 773
Cost:
£5.390 million / $21.560 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 797 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 3 622 tons, 28.7 %
- Belts: 834 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 546 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 628 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1 550 tons, 12.3 %
- Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1 160 tons, 9.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 915 tons, 46.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 080 tons, 8.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16 630 lbs / 7 543 Kg = 24.8 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.468
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.65 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.55 ft / 4.13 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.47 ft / 6.24 m (12.47 ft / 3.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Stern: 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Average freeboard: 17.60 ft / 5.37 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.3 %
Waterplane Area: 26 598 Square feet or 2 471 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 718 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.42
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Study 20 rebuilt in 1938 = Study 21
Study21 - AXY-380, Germany Baltic Pocket Battleship laid down 1931
Displacement:
14 316 t light; 15 200 t standard; 15 750 t normal; 16 190 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
618.31 ft / 596.13 ft x 68.90 ft (Bulges 82.02 ft) x 24.09 ft (normal load)
188.46 m / 181.70 m x 21.00 m (Bulges 25.00 m) x 7.34 m
Armament:
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
28 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (14 mounts in 1943 ), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10 630 lbs / 4 822 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 95
16 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 433.07 ft / 132.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 157.48 ft / 48.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
5.58 ft / 1.70 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
Bulkhead 40mm + Bulge 30mm
2.76" / 70 mm 439.63 ft / 134.00 m 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.69" / 170 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38 800 shp / 28 945 Kw = 24.32 kts
Range 3 500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 990 tons
(343 tons add in new tanks in the bulges)
Complement:
702 - 913
Cost:
£7.766 million / $31.062 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 329 tons, 8.4 %
Armour: 4 168 tons, 26.5 %
- Belts: 849 tons, 5.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 956 tons, 6.1 %
- Armament: 739 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1 550 tons, 9.8 %
- Conning Tower: 75 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1 160 tons, 7.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 638 tons, 48.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 434 tons, 9.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 247 lbs / 7 823 Kg = 10.3 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 18.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.468
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.55 ft / 4.13 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.47 ft / 6.24 m (12.47 ft / 3.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Stern: 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Average freeboard: 17.60 ft / 5.37 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89.9 %
Waterplane Area: 26 598 Square feet or 2 471 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 880 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Jef :MG:
so, I have all the data printed out, after some graphical work I'm ready to the dice-throwing :-D
The FFM-2007-crew knows the rules quite good (I think), its mostly an enchancement of the La Plata-Rules. If someone wants the exact rules, than I will translate them into English.
(its a kind of modification of this: http://members.tripod.com/fireonthewaters/fotw.htm)
@Harold:
Wenn ich fertig bin, kannst du dann die graphische Überarbeitung übernehmen?)
mfg
alex
...ich könnte die graphische Überarbeitung zur 36-er-Teilung per excel machen, wenn du willst.
Die Schiffsdaten dazu hab ich ja schon von Jean-Francois bekommen, und für die Würfelei ein Tabellchen zu konstruieren - keine weitere Maloche, das.
:MG: Harold
So, first 4 salvos done.
Study 20 makes a hit with the 3rd on Renown, well aft, near "Deckskante". No serious damage.
Ranown makes a hit on on Study 20 with the 4th, near the bow, near the waterline. Ship floods to the forward magazines.
so, I have to go to drink some beer, tomorrow I will continue!
alex
Wollt ihr auch Powerpoints? :-D
@ Alex:
Gunnery simulations on alcohol? :-o
Doesn't that let the hit rate become much lower? :-D
Study 20 is with 28cm guns...
...Hmmm, a bad hit in the bow... :-P
Oh Yeehhh Alex stop the game & drink some beers
:/BE: :/BE: :/BE:
Alex, can you add the time in your comment please
Jef :MZ:
So, I'm back :-D
As usual, I make 5-Minute-Runs, in the first 5 minutes, there were only 3 salvos per ship (range-findig), in the next 5 minutes, there will be 4 salvoes, and thereafter 5 per 5 minute (range found).
Because of the bad weather and the range, I assume, that the hit-chance is at best 3%.
Secondary guns are not fireing, because they have not really a chance to get a hit.
Hallo Alex,
Important:
Jefgte's Shipyards did n't forget the Lutzow flooding lesson at Jutland.
When I make the studies of the Panzerschiffes in 1980 summer
All are equiped with a complet systeme to pump the water in the hull.
Here are the internal drawings made 27 years ago
I add little white & orange parts to indicate the place of the water pumps
In white, principal pump, In orange secondary pump.
4 principal & 4 secondary
(http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6453/1022131dk7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5102/1022132mn6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/711/1022133gm4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
As you can seen, the magasins are well protected by flooding.
------------------
The Von der Tann 15cm guns are made to help the 38cm in range, so, they must fire too.
Jef
soo.. the next salvoes:
5th salvo:
Study 20 achieves a hit on the forecastle-deck of Renown, minor flooding
Renown achieves a hit well aft on Study 20, no flooding
6th salvo:
VdT achieves a hit on the last sFLAK position on Renown, turret out, fire on the ready-use ammo
7th salvo:
REnown achieves a hit in the steering of Study 20, steering out, heavy flooding aft
8th salvo:
Study 20 achieves a hit on the forecastle of Renown (windlass), no flooding
9th salvo:
Study 20 achieves a hit on the hull of Renown, no holing of plate
10th salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on Renown on the forecastle-deck, flooding
11th salvo:
Study 20 achieves a hit on the forecastle-deck of Renown, flooding
Renown achieves a hit on Study 20, complete penetration of the armour at the forward magazines, fire in the magazines, and subsequent self-flooding. A-turret out of action
12th salvo:
no hits
13th salvo:
Renown achieves 2 hits on study 20, first knocks the fire controll room out, and floods engine Room 1, the second hits at the magazine B, fire is put out by self-flooding. B-turret out
14th salvo:
no hits
15th salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on Renown, Engine Room 2 flooded
16th salvo:
VdT achieves a hit on Renown, Boiler Room 1 floods slowly
17th salvo:
no hits
18th salov:
Study 21 achieves a hit on Renown, complete penetration
19th salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on the forecastle of Renown
20th salvo:
no hits
21st salvo:
no hits
22nd salvo:
VdT achieves a hit on Renown, rangefinder out
23rd salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on the forecastle of Renown
VdT achieves a hit on the forecastle of Renown
24th salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on the forecastle of Renown
25th salvo:
no hits
26th salvo:
no hits
27th salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on Renown in magazine C, explosion is prevented by quick flooding, C-turret out.
28th salvo:
no hits
29th salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on Renown, Engine Room further damaged
30th-32nd salvos:
no hits
33rd salvo:
Study 21 achieves a hit on Renown, Boiler Room 3 damaged
34th salvo:
no hits
35th salvo:
Renown achieves a hit on Study 20, catapult out, fire
36-45th salvos:
no hits
46th salvo:
Renown achieves a hit on Study 20, well aft
47th salvo:
no hits.
alex
So, I made a summary of the hits on Renown (if its against copyright, please delete - I found it on internet - http://warship.all-model.com/HMS%20Renown.html)
the hits are:
1: 28cm
2: 28cm
3: 38cm
4: 28cm
5: 38cm
6: 28cm
7-17: 38cm
I will make also a summary for Study 20 (done)
(also the Excel-sheet with the salvos added)
alex
Hallo Alex :MG:
Good battle
8hits on German PBBs to 17 hits on the Renown
Study 20 is heavily damage, the pumps had much work to do
The hull of the Renown is a strainer.
Why Renown don't switch her fire to a 38cm PBB most dangerous for her ?
Well, who is still ready to fight? ...German or British
Jef
:MG:
An other alternative for the constitution of the Baltic Squadron.
As you All know, Deutschland, Admiral Scheer & Admiral Graf Spee are sistership.
You can process identicaly and choose 1 class of Baltic Battleship.
3 Study 15 or 3 VdT or ... the most powerfull 3 Study 21
3 study 21 is the most powerfull Baltic Squadron
3 Study 20 are built in place of Deutschland Class & rebuilt in 1936,37,38 in Study 21.
The Baltic Squadron could have in 1939 3 Baltic battleships
15200T
24 kts - 3500nm range
Belt 12cm - deck 8cm
and...18x38cm guns !!!
Good luck to the enemy battleship ...Renown, Hood or DoY
Jef :MG:
Huszar,
hast Du die Trefferwahrscheinlichkeit nach den Treffern auf dem jeweiligen Schiff angepaßt oder bleibt es bei den 3% ?
Gruß, TM
Ja, nachdem die Rechenzentrale ausgefallen ist, sank die Trefferwahrscheinlichkeit auf 1%, bei Renown hab ich aber nichts geändert.
mfg
alex
Hallo Huszar,
als ich den kaputten Entfernungsmesser auf der Renown sah ... das hilft sicher auch nicht. Und: wenn "study 20" eine Rechenstelle verliert - da muß doch ne zweite sein. Traditionellerweise gab es unter der Brücke und dem achteren Leitstand eine Rechenstelle - da müßte doch umgeschaltet werden. Vielleicht sind einige Verbindungen zu den vorderen Türmen auch durchtrennt worden. Ich behaupte jetzt einfach einmal, das so was von einer guten Mannschaft in relativ kurzer Zeit geflickt werden kann (provisorisch-wird reichen). Damit ist die 1% etwas pessimistisch - oder ?
Gruß,
TM
Hallo,
Sieh dir mal den Treffer Nr.6 auf Study 20 an. Ziemlich besch*** Punkt! nach diesem Treffer war nur noch Turm C einsatzbereit, davor die gefluteten Munkammern von Turm B. Die vordere Rechenstelle sollte ein Totalverlust sein, und um die - womöglich - beschädigte achtere Rechenstelle durch die geflutete Munkammer mit Turm C zu verbinden reichen die ca. 45-50 Minuten, die das GEfecht gedauert hat, mM nicht (und zwischen Treffer 6 und Kampfabbruch sollten lediglich wenige 5 Minuten vergehen)
Bei Renown sollten noch einige weiteren E-Messer da sein, und die REchenstellen sind ebenfalls in Ordnung.
mfg
alex
Huszar,
hast ja recht - ich ergebe mich .... oder man hat einen Kabelflicker erster Güte - feuerfest, wasserdicht und kurzschlußsicher ... !
Gruß - TM
Es wird sich hier nicht ergeben! Wir kampfen bis zur letzten Patrone! Oder wir werden sie demoralisieren! :-D
(bringt mich auf eine Idee....)
mfg
alex
:MG:
38cm guns for Std 21 are an update reuse of the 38cm guns of the Bayern Battleship class 1913-1916
38cm/45 SK L/45
In the Baltic Squadron concept 1929-1932, they are stronger enough to engage Marat, Courbet ou Bretagne class BB.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030621115727/http://warships1.com/
Jef :MZ: