Zerstörer Malocello und Ascari

[Ritchie]

Hallo Freunde,

beide Schiffe gingen am 24.03.43 auf englischen Minen verloren. Laut Brown kamen dabei 397 Besatzungsmitglieder ums Leben, nur 53 konnten gerettet werden. Er schreibt weiterhin, dass 550 von 650 deutschen Soldaten an Bord nicht überlebten. Was für ein Transport ist das gewesen? Nach Nordafrika oder bereits Evakuierung? Welche Einheiten wurden transportiert?

Grüße

Ritchie

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ritchie,

Laut Brown ...

es wäre schon hilfreich, zu sagen, wen und welches Buch Du da zitierst ... David Brown ?

Gruß, Urs

[F.B.]

Hallo,

Die Ascari ging laut "Zerstörer im zweiten Weltkrieg" von M.J.Whitley bei der Evakuierung verloren.

MfG

Frank

 

[Ritchie]

Entschuldige Urs, natürlich der Brown, Ausgabe von 1990 Seite 83.

"Warship Losses of World War Two"

[de domenico]

From Maurizio Brescia, "Cacciatorpediniere classe 'Navigatori'", 1995:
"On 23 March 1943 MALOCELLO, SOA cap. freg. Carlo Rossi, PANCALDO and CAMICIA NERA sailed from Pozzuoli bound for Tunis. They were joined at sea by ASCARI, coming from Palermo. Each destroyer carried about 350 German troops (which were by then embarked on board destroyers for the sake of a fast trip). In the morning of 24 March, the flotilla was nearing Cape Bon when, at 07:28, MALOCELLO hit a mine which exploded just amidships. Most of her crew and troops were then saved by ASCARI, thanks to her very able manoeuvering. MALOCELLO then sank at 08:45 28 mi. to the N. of Cape Bon. During the next hours, ASCARI also hit successively three mines, which caused her sinking. Human losses were very high: 83% of the 1100 men on board the two destroyers died."
From Erminio Bagnasco, "Cacciatorpediniere classe 'Soldati' Teil II u. III, 1993:
In the night of 24 March 1943  ASCARI, cdr cap. freg. Gerini, left Palermo for a German troop-transport sortie to Tunis, joining at sea CAMICIA NERA, PANCALDO & MALOCELLO coming from Gaeta and Pozzuoli, with 350 German troops on board each ship. At 07:28 of 24 March, 28 mi. to the North of Cape Bon, a strong explosion (attributed to a torpedo) shook MALOCELLO in the bow on her right side. The ship stopped, listing to the right. ASCARI, as senior unit of the flotilla, ordered CAMICIA NERA and PANCALDO to continue towards Tunis while she rendered assistance to the crippled consort. Notwithstanding seas force 3-4 caused by the  scirocco (SE wind), ASCARI was able to accost MALOCELLO on her left side. After a false torpedo alarm by a TAG-Geraet which caused ASCARI to distance herself from the wreck and to drop 8 depth charges, she attempted again to approach MALOCELLO, when a strong underwater explosion caused the loss of her bow. The (more)

[Ritchie]

Thank you very much for your help!

I guess, there is no split figure between crew and transported soldiers available? The 83% mentioned translate to some 913 men where Brown gives 947 combined losses.

@alle

Warum wurden zu diesem Zeitpunkt über 1000 Soldaten nach Tunis transportiert? 6 Wochen später war doch alles vorbei in Nordafdrika?

Grüße

Ritchie

[de domenico]

... The destroyers had entered a minefield of about 80 mines laid by HMS ABDIEL during the night 7/8 March. MALOCELLO broke in two and sank at 08:45, while ASCARI remained afloat, and for almost 5 hours her motor-launch rescued the survivors of MALOCELLO. At about 13:00 however ASCARI, while backing to reach some life rafts, hit a second mine which destroyed her stern. Still afloat, she was driven by the wind onto a third mine at 13:20, hitting near the conning tower, whose explosion caused her immediate sinking. Rescue craft from Bizerte, Tunis and Sicilian harbours were hampered by the sea state, which continued to worsen. Out of 488 crew members and 650 Germans on board only 17% could be saved. From ASCARI's crew only 53 men were rescued.
Three very dramatic pictures taken from the air of ASCARI minus her bow (the first two) and minus both bow and stern, but overflowing with personnel,  are published in Bagnasco's book.

[Ritchie]

Hi Domenico,

thank you for posting the additional source. In my math, Ascari and Malocello lost together 397 crew (53 Ascari and 38 Malocello crew rescued) out of 488, and 548 more killed of the german soldiers, leaving only 102 Survivors. Altogether 945 out of 1138 on Bord at time of loss were killed with only 193 Survivors.

As you know, there were many more Navigatori and Soldati Class Destroyers lost in WW II. It would be very nice of you, to give some details about the losses in those other ships. Especially interesting would be:

Alpino - named after the Alpini military corps
Built by CNR Ancona, completed 20 April 1939,
Lost 19 April 1943 when it was bombed by the US Air Force in La Spezia Harbour.

Artigliere - ("Gunner")
Built by OTO Livorno, completed 14 November 1938, lost 12 October 1940, sunk by HMS York at the battle of Cape Passero.

Aviere ("airmen") -
Built by OTO Livorno, completed 31 August 1938,
Lost on 17 December 1942.

Bersagliere - named after the Bersaglieri -
Built by CNR Palermo, completed on 1 April 1939,
lost on 7 January 1943 after being bombed in Palermo harbour.

Geniere ("Engineer") -
Built by OTO Livorno, completed 14 December 1938.
She was lost on 1 March 1943 when it was bombed by USAAF in Palermo Harbour.

Lanciere ("lancer") -
Built by CT Riva Trigoso, completed 25 March 1939,
Lost in a storm on 23 March 1942 following the Second Battle of Sirte, with five survivors in the crew.

Bombardiere ("bomber") -
Built by CNR Ancona, completed 15 July 1942.
Sunk on 17 January 1943 by British submarine United.

Corsaro ("corsair") -
Built by OTO Livorno, completed on 16 May 1942,
Sunk by mines of 9 January 1943.

Alvise da Mosto Sunk by HMS Aurora and HMS Penelope near Tripoli, 1 December 1941

Antonio da Noli Mined and sunk on 9 September 1943

Giovanni da Verrazzano Sunk 19 October 1942 by British submarine HMS Unbending.

Leone Pancaldo Bombed and sunk on 30 April 1943 near Tunisia.

Emanuele Pessagno Sunk by British submarine HMS Turbulent on 29 May 1942

Luca Tarigo Sunk by British destroyers on 16 April 1941, but torpedoed and sank the British destroyer HMS Mohawk before sinking. 

Antoniotto Usodimare Sunk by submarine Alagi in a friendly fire incident on 8 June 1942

Ugolino Vivaldi Bombed and sunk by German aircraft while attempting to reach internment in Spain following the Italian Armistice 10 September 1943

Regards

Ritchie

[de domenico]

"Vaste programme", comme dit le Général de Gaulle...

[AndreasB]

Hier Info zum Verlust der da Mosto:

http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/some-italian-navy-reports/

http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/german-antisubmarine-equipment-on-italian-vessels/

http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/force-k-report/

Alles Gute

Andreas

[Ritchie]

Hi Andreas,

das ist das erste mal, dass ich davon höre, dass deutsche an Bord waren! Vielen Dank für den Hinweis. Wenn ich alles richtig verstanden habe, wurden 2 gerettet (die sich auf der brücke aufhielten), einer fiel am achteren Geschütz und zwei wurden vermisst (beide blieben auf ihrer gefechtsstation am S gerät).

Gab es auf anderen italienischen Schiffen auch derartige Abordnungen? Bisher kannte ich das eher von den Briten, die auf alliierten Einheiten oft einen Funktrupp fuhren.

Grüße

Ritchie

[AndreasB]

Hi Andreas,

das ist das erste mal, dass ich davon höre, dass deutsche an Bord waren! Vielen Dank für den Hinweis. Wenn ich alles richtig verstanden habe, wurden 2 gerettet (die sich auf der brücke aufhielten), einer fiel am achteren Geschütz und zwei wurden vermisst (beide blieben auf ihrer gefechtsstation am S gerät).

Gab es auf anderen italienischen Schiffen auch derartige Abordnungen? Bisher kannte ich das eher von den Briten, die auf alliierten Einheiten oft einen Funktrupp fuhren.

Grüße

Ritchie

Hallo Ritchie

Meines Wissens war es normal das zur Einarbeitung der ital. Besatzungen deutsche Bedienungen fuer die S-Geraete mit an Board waren. Dies war z.B. auch der Fall als Tp Circe das brit. Uboot P.38 versenkte (http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/sinking-of-hm-submarine-p-38-23-february-1942/). Ich gehe davon aus das die deutschen Bedienungen am Ende der Einarbeitungszeit abgezogen wurden.

Alles Gute

Andreas