Admiral Hipper on the Elbe [1942] [Solved]

[Hobbying skogkatt]

Hi everyone,

I've recently come across this photo of Hipper and it caught my attention. Besides one drawing of that camouflage scheme in a book, I had only seen one other photo of it (depicting the port side). Assuming this picture was taken during early 1944 somewhere in the Baltic sea, does anyone have more precise informations regarding the date and location (the cruiser seems to be steaming through a relatively narrow waterway, so maybe a canal)?

Besides that, on the aforementioned pictures/drawings, her turrets seemed camouflaged in white and with different tones of grey. Here they seem to only have light grey faces/sides with darker, plain tops. I do not know if red or yellow tops for aerial reconnaissance were used much during the later years of the war in the Baltic, so were these just painted in dark grey?

(I have a model kit of the ship and was already planning to refit it into her 1944 layout, now this camouflage confirmed that idea. Quite tempted to try recreating that scenery in a diorama, so any piece of information is welcome)

Thank you

[Hägar]

Hello

This picture was taken on the River Elbe with HIPPER bound for Hamburg.
The time is 25.01.42 late forenoon, say around 1045 (sun's azimuth).
The house you see left of the mainmast is still existent at Elbchaussee. more or less opposite of the Pilots' House at Seemannshöft.

Regards - Hägar

[Hobbying skogkatt]

I see, thank you very much

Although all three sources mentioning that camouflage list it as early 1944, after taking a closer look at the picture, to me the platform with plain walls for the 20mm Flakvierling does not seem to have been installed yet on the C turret, which should have alerted me. However, if the ship only wore this paint scheme for a brief period of trials and training, this probably explains why it is quite undocumented.

Again, thank you for your precise informations

[Hägar]

One should keep in mind that HIPPER did not recommission until 01.03.44.
At that time she had no longer this FuMO equipment, and neither was wearing a camouflage pattern at all.

Regards - Hägar

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

I think this is becoming a very interesting post now.

That photo in fact made me in deep troubles many years ago when I have re-constructed all the Admiral Hipper camouflage schemes, ... and I made an error at that time incorrectly positioning that camouflage scheme on April 1944 as you can double check on my Admiral Hipper drawings posted on this website too.

Now that I have received from several sources many other Admiral Hipper original photos I can be more precise and try to make a correct call.

For a long time I thought that the above photo shows the camouflage that Admiral Hipper had on her way from Norway back to Germany  in Kiel with the Operation called EICHORN on February 7th, 1943.

This was because it seemed to me that  the above camouflage remained on her thru the passage into the Kaiser Wilhelm Kanal from Kiel to Wilhelmshaven on February 11th, 1943, where she was decommissioned on February 28th, 1943.

Later on April 1943 she was towed to Pillau, where you can still see that camouflage pattern on her hull well visible under the camouflage netz in Pillau, ... and this was the reason why I incorrectly thought that she had that camo soon after her period in Pillau, so on 1944.

But the camo in Pillau can be similar but not the same.

In addition I can confirm that on February 1942, during her passage into the Kaiser Wilhelm Kanal the Admiral Hipper was already wearing the camouflage scheme that on my drawings is listed on her on March 1942 while arriving in Norway, ... as I have photos of her in Brunsbuttel and also into the Kanal with that camouflage already on her.

But I can be wrong with 1943, ... and now the precise identification of the location by Hagar on the Elbe river can open a new possibility I have investigated immediately.

That camouflage could have been on Admiral Hipper just before she sailed to Norway on early 1942 with a different camo scheme.

This leaves the possibility of 25 January 1942 on her way to Hamburg before she sailed to Norway on 1942, once the place is confirmed.

I checked the A/A guns on the B and mostly C turret and it is possible.

By the way thanks to T-Geronimo for having showed me this post, ... and Merry Christmas and a Happy 2022 to everybody.

                          Bye / Gruss   Antonio 

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

I have to thank Hagar for this new information and I  confirm that it can absolutely be right  with January 25th, 1942.

This is because on the above photo  on of the C turret there is not yet  installed the 20 mm Flak vierling  circular protection that you can see on this later taken photo on of the C turret referencing the yellow  arrow.

That protection was added while the Adm Hipper was on the LoFjord in Norway on  spring 1942.

Consequently the above photo was taken before she went in Norway, ... and Hagar is very likely absolutely right with his date and the location identification on the Elbe river near Hamburg.

Bye / Gruss Antonio

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

still thanking Hagar for his very precise and detailed determination of the above photo on the Elbe river on January 25th, 1942 on the way to Hamburg, ... here the other photos I had of that camouflage scheme that caused my incorrect evaluations before.

As you can see it was not so easy to realize whether or not she was having the 2 crucial details able to uniquely determine the period of those photos, ...  so before or after the 1942 Norwegian period, ... I mean the C turret added platform  on spring 1942 and the aft rangefinder elevation too, ... both added in Norway during the year 1942.

Now with that January 25th, 1942 very detailed photo showing more clearly the aft part of the Adm Hipper we have the confirmation that those parts were not installed yet, plus also that she was surely on the Elbe river on the way to Hamburg because of the houses visible on the photo itself.

I consider the case is closed and Hagar deserves some congratulations for having solved the enigma of this camouflage.

There are still a couple of mysterious camouflages related to the Adm Hipper, ... the one she had on her while sailing from Norway back to Germany, ... plus the one she had while under the netz in Pillau, ... dazzle and very dark, ... similar to this one of early 1942.

Bye / Gruss Antonio

[Teddy Suhren]

Hai

Today

[Hobbying skogkatt]

Thank you very much to all of you for your help and input, this is very enriching. Nice pictures aswell Antonio 

I've got a back up plan for my model so no worries on that point