German Hospital ships

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Good evening Gentlemen,

beyond the Ophelia and the Praesident did the German Navy lose any other hospital ships during World War One? Infos about damages and attacks against any other German Hospital ships would be welcome too.

I must add I could offer little in change about this matter as no Italian Hospital ship was attacked during that same war. One small ship under the red cross, the Marechiaro, was sunk by a mine off Durazzo and an other one Koenig Albert, stopped, searched and realased by the AH submaruine U 11 (alias a German boat)

Greetings

    EC

[Enrico Cernuschi]

 

EC

[kgvm]

Zur "König Albert" siehe auch hier:
http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,10466.0.html

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Thank you for the ref. about the Koenig Albert.

I dare to add an extra topic question at my prevuous research. Did the German Hospital ships in the North Sea, Baltic and Atlantic theaters of operation suffer any attack on 1939-1943?

   Greetings

       EC

 

[kgvm]

As far as I know "Präsident" never was a hospitalship. She only tried to claim she was such a ship when she was detected by British forces 18.10.14 (A. Kludas, Die Schiffe der deutschen Afrika-Linien 1880 - 1945. She is missing in the list of the German hospital ships printed in Die deutschen Lazarettschiffe im Zweiten Weltkrieg, too).
But the "Tabora" was used as auxiliary hospital ship at Daressalam. In the first mentioned book there is a picture showing her in 1914 with a Red Cross painted at the hull, but with an appearance otherwise unchanged. "Tabora" was sunk by gunfire of British warships at Daressalam 23.03.16.

[Enrico Cernuschi]

An hospital ship sunk by gunfire is a big piece of news. All they needed was to be denounced at Geneva, to have the medical personnel and facilities and to be marked by red crosses and a green band according the Hague Convention signed on 1907.

May I dare to ask if ther's any further infos about attacks (or even sinkings) against German Hospital ships between 1914-1918 and 1939-1943 (the 1944-1945 time can be reconstructed easy by the Groener)?

  Thank you again

       EC 

[Darius]

Hello Enrico,

if you have the Gröner, so you know the sinking of Stuttgart and Birka 1943:
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/km/laz.htm

Stuttgart:
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/miszellen/stuttgart.htm

Birka:
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/43-05.htm
and an attack in May 1942 by M-172: http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/42-05.htm



Darius

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Hi Darius,

thank you for the ;ay 1942 episode. Do you know if it was bu night or day and if the Soviet sub launched intentionally against an Hospital ship or if, for example, it was foggy.
My interest about before Sept. 1943 episodes such as this in Europe is dictated by the purpose to verify if there really a more cruel war conduct after the Italian armistice which had operative effects on naval warfare.

   Greetings

      EC   

[kgvm]

I think we can exclude the "Birka", for a mine is no intentional aggression against a hospital ship.
But in the same month there was another attack by "M-172" against the hospital ship "Fasana":
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/43-05.htm
Another ship you can discuss: "the "Strassburg" ex Dutch "Baloeran". While the mine damage 01.09.43 was no intentional attack against a hospital ship, some days later there were bombing attacks against the ship lying on a shallow, which stopped any attempts to rise the ship. But again there are some doubts whether this was an attack against an hospital ship, for pictures show the "Strassburg" with a cross at the funnel and a line around the hull, but at the same time in camouflage!!
And for "Stuttgart" just read the own German analysis to see it is at least very doubtful, if there was an intentional attack against a hospital ship:
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/miszellen/mail0171.jpg
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/miszellen/mail0172.jpg
But a German ship in the Mediterranean might be of interest, too. The "Konstanz" ex Greek "Eleni":
http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,7722.0.html

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Did I translate correctly that Hospital ship was trying to pass Gibraltar and to sail in the Atlantic on May 1943 when she was seized by the British? 

    Thank you

        EC

[kgvm]

No!
For unknown reasons some sources say "Konstanz" was seized in the Straits of Gibraltar (that's why I asked, didn't believe this information), but in fact she was seized near Malta!

[Darius]

Hello,

from WAR CABINET WEEKLY RESUME (No. 194) of the NAVAL, MILITARY AND AIR SITUATION from 0700 May 13th, to 0700 May  20th, 1943:

5. The Italian hospital ships Laurana and Konstanz [sic, M.G.] were intercepted by
H.M. destroyers in the Sicilian Channel and escorted into Malta. A third
hospital ship, Toscana, bound for Kelibia, was intercepted and ordered to proceed
to Trapani.

Darius

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Danke KGVM, an other sea snake hit by an harpoon.

Darius, your source is quite interesting indeed. During 20 years of researches I was able to discovered plenty of British supposedly official infos contradicing themselves. For example I was able to supply my good friend Vince O'Hara eleven episodes of damages to HM ships by German surface vessels fire unknown by the usual literature (Playfair, Cunningham, Roskill, Taffrail, Macintyre ect.) by original reports of the times I discovered at the PRO and by some technical infos collected by the Royal Naval Constructors Corps during the war. He used these infos, with a zillion of other ones he was able to find thorugh the globe, in his The German Fleet at War 1039-1945 published on 2004 by the Naval Institute.

I believe that a check thorugh those Cabinet Weekly resumes studying some dates could provide some further forgotten episodes. Let me know if such a search is possible. I don't know if you are able to read Italian, but this is a link where you can find a book of mine to verify my methods of searches:

http://www.marina.difesa.it/editoria/rivista/rivista/2006/novembre/art04.asp

If such a search would be possibile a total new thead would be opened, of course.


    With a renewed danke schoen (my German is little, but my hearth is candid) 

           EC           

[Darius]

Hallo Enrico,

http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,11377.0.html



Darius

P.S.: An die Technik. Evtl. sollte der Beitrag umgehängt werden oder aber umbenannt.

[t-geronimo]