The Baltic Squadron

[Jefgte]

Scratchbuilt the Baltic Squadron

Alternate History:

We all know that German with the Versailles Treaty constraints built Panzerschiffs raider, the Deutschland class.
I explore the other possibility & choose to study Baltic Battleships
"The Baltic Squadron"
I suppose that these Baltic Battleships were laid down at the same date as the Deutschland , Admiral Scheer & Admiral Graf Spee
They have also the same standard displacement

This Squadron is made to engage the Battleships, specially, the Petropavlosk, the Courbet & the Bretagne class
These PB are drawing to receive T3x11" or T2x15" in the same barbette.
The rebuilt with 15" turrets is interesting to have more heavy shells able to penetrate Russian & French Battleships protection
The original build is made with T3x11"
The speed of the squadron is 24kts after rebuilt, ranges enough for Baltic & short North Atlantic operations.

1st chalenge:
Rebuilt VdT Panzerschiff for the Baltic Squadron

I am working (SpringSharp & drawings) on the VdT rebuilt, more compact, as a 11890Tstd Pocket Battleship with all protection (belt, turrets, barbettes, blockaus) 270mm, laid down in 1929
Rebuilt with 2T2x15" - 24Kts is very very hard.
I want also to protect the life boats from the blast of the wing T3x150

VdT actualy


...


Jef 

[Jefgte]

 

Final VdT charac

laid down 05 feb 1929 - (in place of Deutschland)
162oax21.3x6.92
11890Tstd - 12210Tfl
2T3x11" + 2T3x4"9
Belt - turrets - blockaus - 270
Deck 100
Speed 24.81kts - 1000nm/14kts

Rebuilt 1937
164.2oax21.3 (bulges 24.4) x7.27
14040Tstd - 14875Tfl
2T2x15" + 2T3x4"9

Speed 24kts - 3000nm/14kts


Design in progress







Jef   

[Jefgte]

 

3 Pocket Battleships are in the Baltic Squadron
VdT - laid down 05 feb 1929
2T3x280 +2T3x150 – rebuilt in 1937 with 2T2x380
Study 20 - laid down in 25 june 1931 – 3T3x280 - rebuilt in 1938 with 3T2x380
Study 21 – laid down in 01 oct 1932 – 3T3x280
In sept 1939, The Baltic Squadron had
10x380 + 9x280 + 6x150






Baltic Squadron during the war,
1940 - The Baltic Squadron had actions during Norway campaign & help to the landings
April 9 1940 – Main action with Renown... (?)
1941- Help the Wehrmacht in the East March by coast bombardments.
Ready to engage Russian Baltic Fleet.
1942-43-44 – North of the Norway with the High Sea Fleet to destroy convoys
30 dec 1942- Barentz Sea Battle... (?)
26 dec 1943 – Main action with Duke of York... (?)
1944-45 - Help the Wehrmarcht in the retreat by coast bombardments



Jef 

[harold]

There are three possible scenarios for an engagement or artilleristic duel ...on which you did give a questionmark, each...

So whan we take those vessels, and substitute the real (SH & GU, e.g.),

- what would an engagement with Renown look like?
- is there another way of encounter with Glorious (range given, but not the speed -what if G could manage to launch an air strike)?, and
- Barents Sea, or North Cape - would it look the same?

As far as I understood (and we did recently discuss about these alternative scenarios in Paris), these baltic coastal defense force brings some very important alternatives :

1) they do not necessarily evoke an answer on french or british side, e.g. Dunkerque or at least Strasbourg seem to be quite unrealistic, not to speak of Richelieu class.
2) french yards could help Poland to make some serious attempt to counter these vessels...
3) a raider duty is -given the endurance- quite unrealistic for this force,
4) given the fact, that Germany is allowed to have six of them (first all with 283mm trple guns, to be upgunned to 380mm twins by the late 30ties might happen to two or three of them) and all of them are ready at the (historical) outbreak of hostilities ... what would be their field of duties?

We just recently had a discussion about an alternative building program for the KM, so if I might bring in the point:

- which cruiser program should be in parallel to those 12.000 ts vessels (instead of the K-class and the Hippers)?
- are there some merchant vessel buildup programs to be easily converted in Hilfskreuzer for raiding dutys?, and
- as I suppose, neither a SH or GU, nor BS or TP is laid down, also no GZ.

Your "studies" come out to be a quite interesting nucleus for an alternative building program, which does spare a lot of yard capacities to subs, merchant raiders, and (I'll gues the Seelöwe-guys might stiffen their ears) landing crafts.

Kurz auf deutsch:
Jef's Flotte hat's schon in sich ... keine "automatischen Antwortbauten" wie Dunkerque etc, und es werden jede Menge Kapazitäten für eine ganz andere Zusammensetzung der KM frei.
Da würden mich vor allem die Kreuzer, die dieses Bauprogramm begleiten könnten, interessieren...!

Ja, und ein paar der "historisch möglichen" Treffen mit gegnerischen Einheiten hat Jef ja schon aufgelistet :
nur wunderlich, dass unsere "what-if-Spezialisten" sich nicht schon längst darauf gestürzt haben?

Meiner Meinung nach sehr diskutierenswert!

Ciao,
Harold

[Jefgte]

 
About the building program after 1933...

2 of the PocketBattleships, VdT & Std20 are rebuilt with T2x38cm
so, 5xT3x28cm are free.
I propose to reuse these turrets on 2 superPanzerschiff like "D" or "P" design but 30kts
(1 turret in reserve)
The job of these SuperPanzerschiff is to go with the new 30kts battleships H34-36-39...& help them to do the job
----------------------
The Baltic Squadron is not made to do action alone.
Always "K" cruiser & Torpedoboots are with BS
----------------------
Action with Glorious is not possible. 24 kts is not enough to catch the carrier.
An air strike from the Carrier is not sure, As I can remember, Glorious had some Gloster Gladiator on board & a few Swordish

Actions with Renown & DoY are interresting scenars
I think that these 3 Pocket Battleships (10x38cm+9x28cm) could sink Renown(6x38cm)
Waouuuuh Great Victory!!!   

Not sure about DoY... 



Jef 

[Jefgte]

 

New VdT hull in progress, always with 3mm plywood glued with white  woodglue.




















Jef   

[Jefgte]

 

After sandpepering & varnish




Lifeboats are going to be protected from the blast of the 5"9 turrets when they fire to the opposite side.
Main deck openings in progress






The 2 big holes are T3x5"9 axes.
Futur 2 openings can be see by the 2x4 small holes opposite to the axes






Jef 

[Jefgte]

 

Bulges in progress





Bulges near the hull





Bulges glued




Next update in 2 weeks...



Jef 

[Jefgte]

 

Here is VdT hull with Luftwaffe camo paint style







Transfer of the uperworks from the 1st built to this new hull can start...




Jef 

[Jefgte]

 

Accomodations for the lifeboats...


























Testing the places






Jef 

[Jefgte]

 

Debuilt the old hull








On the new hull, turrets & center parts in progress







Jef 

[Jefgte]

Update for Von der Tann, Admiral ship of the Baltic Squadron


















Jef   

[Huszar]

Outstanding, Jeff!


mfg

alex

[Jefgte]

Von der Tann, Baltic Pocket Battleship is finish























Jef 

[t-geronimo]